Shireen Abdullah  0:03 
In today’s episode, registered dietitian Maya Feller shares how personal experiences shaped her approach to honoring food traditions in health guidance. We dive into real stories of navigating mainstream diet advice, preserving cultural dishes without sacrificing flavor, and avoiding stereotypes in wellness, a must-listen for anyone seeking nutrition that respects identity and heritage.

Shireen Abdullah  0:32  
Podcasting from Dallas, Texas. I am Shireen, and this is the Yumlish Podcast. Yumlish is working to empower you to take charge of your health through diet and exercise and reduce the risk of chronic conditions like type 2 diabetes and heart disease. We hope to share a unique perspective and a culturally relevant approach to managing these chronic conditions with you each week.

Shireen Abdullah  1:07  
Maya Feller, founder of Brooklyn-based Maya Feller Nutrition, is a registered dietitian, nutritionist, author of Eating From Our Roots: 80 Plus Healthy Home Cooked Favorites From Cultures Around The World, and host of YouTube’s “Where Well-being  Meets Flavor.” Welcome Maya!

Maya Feller  1:28  
Oh, Shireen, thank you so much for having me.

Shireen Abdullah  1:31  
Such an absolute pleasure having you on, so Maya, want to start with your why? What led you first off to become a registered dietitian? And then you’ve got this huge focus on culturally relevant nutrition. Tell us more about your approach and why it is so important in your practice.

Maya Feller  1:48  
Yeah, so I’ll start with the first question. What led me to become a dietitian? It’s a funny story, and it’s kind of strange. So I was training for the Boston Marathon with my best friend, and we had no idea what we were doing. We’re long-time runners, and we’re just like, well, we’re gonna run a marathon. Shireen, we did not know that, like, you need to pay attention to your hydration. We didn’t know that, like you needed to time your meals. She ended up in the hospital twice, once with hyponatremia and once with hypernatremia. So clearly, we did not have the hydration game right. And I was a vegetarian at the time. I remember we’d get to, like, mile six or seven, and I would just start thinking about falafel, and it would be like the last 10 miles of whatever run we were doing. I was like, “I just need hummus. I just need falafel.” And I was clearly like, I was not properly fueled. And I Googled nutrition for runners. And I was like, “Oh, I’m gonna do a certificate.” And I remember talking to my dad, who is an ethnomusicologist, and for any one of your listeners that this resonates with Afro-Caribbean man with a PhD. There’s no such thing as a certificate. There’s no certificate. There’s like, Master’s, maybe PhD, but there’s no certificate. So he was like, you really should actually go to school and study this. And I was like, Oh, well, that’s not a bad idea. So that’s how I ended up becoming a dietitian.

Maya Feller  3:24  
And then when I started the practice of actually studying nutrition and going out into the community in my clinical rotations, I found that, A) I love people, and I love to interact with people and learn from them, but I found that there was this, I guess, subset of our work in our practice, like other dietitians, that either wanted to go into super high end private practice and serve high net-worth families, or they were like, gonna just, like, go work in a hospital. But there wasn’t, like, a discussion around, “Hey, I want to go work in communities where people are from marginalized backgrounds, where, you know, I’m gonna, like, be involved in the foods that they’re eating.” And that was like my pull from one of my rotations up in the Bronx, like I saw, oh, there’s this direct link between what people have access to, what they eat, and their ethnic background and the culture around them.

Maya Feller  4:33  
And I was like, “Oh, I want to explore that.” And so that’s how I started working in the community. In Brooklyn, it was mostly Afro-Caribbean folks, some Latine folks. And it was an interesting population, because it was HIV, AIDS, and Hep C, plus there had to be a very low income requirement. Plus, there had to be a psychological component. So it was a really at risk population, and I have to tell you, Shireen, I learned so much in that first job, and I learned that, like there is this inextricable connection between someone’s culture and we all move through different cultural circles and the social norms that are accepted in whatever those cultural circles are, and food and access and education. And I was like, “Oh yeah, this is the kind of nutrition that I want to do.” So that’s how I ended up working from what I refer to as an anti-bias, culturally inclusive, patient-centered lens.

Shireen Abdullah  5:48  
So I love this other phrase that you just mentioned right at the end over there, which is that anti-bias tell us more about the bias that does exist, and hence your practice within anti-bias. Yeah.

Maya Feller  6:02  
So implicit bias is everywhere. It’s woven into the fabric of every interaction that each and every one of us has. We’ve been conditioned from the time that we were small to believe in social hierarchies based on race, ethnicity, gender, gender identity, socioeconomic status, like the list goes on and on, being able-bodied, having lighter skin versus dark skin, curly hair versus straight hair. I mean being able to speak English, if that’s the dominant language, or whatever the dominant language of the country is, having a particular accent if you live in one region versus another, and what I learned when I was in school, and you probably remember this also that you would have these last two paragraphs at the end of whatever module we were learning, and it would say something seemingly benign, like “Black people have a higher risk of X disease.” “Hispanics often get this more than these people. Indigenous people have this.” There’s rarely a mention of Southeast Asian people just don’t exist in that last two paragraphs. And then every once in a while, you’d get like, this is kosher food. And sometimes it was like, this is halal, like, maybe, maybe one of those lines.

Maya Feller  7:37  
But really, it was like, “Black folks get X disease. Hispanic people get this disease, and American Indians get whatever.” And that was the language, right? So A) just like not thoughtful in terms of naming marginalized communities, which are the global majority, but not thoughtful, and then also attaching disease states based on race, which is a social construct, no regard for structural inequity, no regard for access education, none of it. No regard for access to actual health care or insurance, or being like, fully insured, and we would actually learn these things. And so then I came out of school thinking and questioning terms like the “Diabetes Belt.”

Maya Feller  8:33  
Well, this part of America is the “Diabetes Belt.” And so then it’s like, well, if we’re labeling people based on structural inequity, and then we’re also blaming them for conditions that they have. That means that we’re saying that they’re inherently not good because of the condition that they have and the structural inequity being their fault. And I was like, “Well, that just makes no sense, none whatsoever.” And when I’m thinking about anti-bias, I’m really thinking about how do I tease apart and unpack those social norms that are steeped in all the -isms? And so when we come to patient interactions in my practice, myself and all of the dietitians that are in the practice, our first thing is to be like a blank slate, right? Let the patient tell us about their lived experience. We know the science, but we want to listen to their lived experience, and that is what we’re there to do, and then marry the two together. So that’s the anti-bias portion.

Shireen Abdullah  9:39  
I love that approach. And so the idea becomes, then, that if you sort of set aside these overgeneralized terms and sort of statistics or numbers or what have you, ultimately becomes about the individual experience and what’s different about them. Which actually leads me to my next question, Maya, as we sort of look at you know, when you were talking about, for instance, the even the “Diabetes Belt” in the Southern Hemisphere, when we’re looking at chronic conditions at large, and just these numbers keep increasing year over year across all of these chronic conditions. Numbers don’t get better. But even as we look at chronic conditions, what are the types of things as you work with individuals = what are the types of things that you start with in providing diet advice to someone with a chronic condition? Where do you begin?

Maya Feller  10:31  
That’s such a great question, and I’ve been thinking about this so much because food is political and because it’s become this partisan issue, saying things like, “I encourage people to eat foods in their whole and minimally processed form,” which is what we diietitians have been saying forever, is like opening up a minefield, right? It’s so complicated when people hijack it and make it a political thing; we start to see the chasm actually get wider and wider, especially with regard to chronic illness. And what happens is that when you have access to food in its whole and minimally processed form, food that is culturally relevant, food that is affordable, we tend to see fewer of those comorbid conditions, and we also tend to see better outcomes.

Maya Feller  11:28  
Is it a cure? I’m not going to say that it’s a cure, but I’m going to say that in neighborhoods, and there’s plenty of statistics where there is a full-service grocery store that’s either walkable or drivable without excessive tolls, right? And that the food is affordable, then people eat it because you eat what you have access to. So when we’re working with people at Maya Feller Nutrition, what we say to them is, “What are the foods that you enjoy?” And usually we just survey them, and then there’s no judgment there. So what are the foods that you enjoy? Of course, we want more fruits and vegetables. We want more whole and ancient grains. We want more herbs and spices in place of saturated and synthetic fats, in place of high quantities of added sugar, in place of high quantities of added salts. And the reason that we frame it that way is because that allows us to have a conversation about heritage and beloved foods.

Maya Feller  12:31  
And every single culture has some plant-forward dish that doesn’t have a huge amount of additives, right, that is actually nourishing for the body. And if we can get our patients to begin to identify what those things are for them and how to include more of them in their pattern of eating, we don’t actually have to have a negative conversation. We can have a positive conversation that’s about, how do we add these things to your pattern of eating, and not in a performative way, add more. But how do we add things that you truly enjoy and are comforting for you, and that you want to return to time after time? So we really do that focus on what do those things look like, and then, because we work with people who have quite a few chronic conditions, we talk about minimizing, right?

Maya Feller  13:26  
Because let’s say someone comes to me and they’re like, I’m drinking a two liter bottle of soda, and this has happened, if I say, stop drinking the two liter bottle of soda, well then I’m being punitive, and that’s a decision that I’m making for someone else, if I say to them, talk to me about the things that you’re drinking, and we have an explanation and conversation about sugar sweetened beverages and the impact of sugar sweetened beverages on whatever their chronic condition is, and then also ask the other array of things that they’re drinking. And then we start to go into a negotiation together, “What feels feasible in terms of modifying how this sugar sweetened beverage is showing up in your pattern of eating, and what other things would you like to increase, and what other things would you like to decrease, and how do you plan to keep yourself and hold yourself accountable?” So those are some of the questions that we ask patients of themselves and the types of discussions that we have, so that truthfully, it becomes a choice that the patient themself makes, but it’s guided with the science.

Shireen Abdullah  14:36  
I love that in the approach you’re taking, there’s so much empowerment that you’re providing to the individual and to make decisions together, rather than what you were talking about in the punitive side. I almost want to ask a follow-up question, but framed almost the other way, which is, can you share, perhaps, any mainstream diet advice that conflicts with a patient’s cultural staples, like what would that look like, and then how do you reframe the guidance to really honor food traditions?

Maya Feller  15:06  
Oh, I love that question so much. I would say that the rice is like, probably at the tippy top of that conversation, and people are told “You have to have brown rice, and that’s the healthiest choice.” And usually what I say to patients is, “Well, what do you eat with your rice?” Rarely do people sit down to an entire bowl of rice with nothing. I’ve not come across that as like a staple. Maybe there’ll be a rice porridge, but it’s mixed in with herbs and spices and then other things.

Maya Feller  15:41  
But rarely do people sit down to just a straight-up bowl of rice, and then that’s where we start to say, “Okay, if white rice is what you like, have it.” What do those other things look like? Are they fiber-rich? Are they phytonutrient-rich? Are they low in the added sugars, the added salts, and the saturated or synthetic fats? If the answer is yes, how do we increase those as components that go with the rice? And if the answer is no, how do we think about mindfully minimizing them in a way that does not feel restrictive? Because the moment that we start to get into the you “can’t have this,” then that’s the thing that everybody wants to have. So I would say rice is like the most malaligned and misunderstood staple ingredient, you know, in the world.

Shireen Abdullah  16:33  
For listeners who worry that healthier tweaks will “dull” beloved dishes, what practical strategies or ingredient swaps can help preserve that authentic taste?

Maya Feller  16:48  
So I think that there’s a place for heritage foods in their unadulterated form, right? I remember listening to Carla Hall, Chef Carla Hall, speak, and she talked about celebration foods versus everyday foods, and I think that because we’re so accustomed to having so much at our fingertips with globalization, that celebration foods do become everyday foods, and I think it’s okay for them to go back into the celebratory category and have them in their natural form, right? Whatever it was for that celebration, depending on the condition or the person’s health, it might be a reduction in the quantity, changing how it shows up on the plate, but enjoying it without “greenwashing” it.

Maya Feller  17:37  
And then I always say this: listen, as diasporas move around the globe, you start to use what you have access to, and sometimes those things change. This is where I say you, the individual, you get to have a culinary license. So if the dish called for a particular ingredient, and there’s something that’s adjacent, and it means that you have to use another herb or spice or something, or a cooking technique to get it closer to what you want. Then do that, and think of that as culinary license.

Maya Feller  18:14  
In terms of like the healthifying or healthy versions, I tend to see the problems with those, and I don’t mean it from a negative perspective, but like, my patients report to me that it’s problematic when  the flavors taken, right? It’s when the person’s like “have this and just boil it.” Pause. I’m like, “Okay, where’s the seasoning, where’s the spice? Where’s the flavor?” And that’s really because, like, once you bring those things in, pretty much anything can be delicious.

Shireen Abdullah  18:50  
I love the connection back that you’re making. So stays familiar, right? That’s like, the takeaway stays familiar, stays to like, true to your upbringing, your identity as well. Which takes me to my next question. You know, when we’re looking across the board at healthcare providers, so dietitians, like yourself, doctors, wellness brands, all these different entities, how can across all of these professions, and again, wellness brands as well, integrate culturally relevant nutrition without reinforcing stereotypes.

Maya Feller  19:24  
Yeah, I have to tell you that this is where we have to stay curious, right? So if there’s a brand that’s saying that they want to start to add, and I’m going to use something an example that I saw recently. I saw someone put up a recipe for Jerk chicken, and they were like, look at my healthified version of Jerk chicken. And then it had salsa on the side. And I was, I mean, listen, culinary license. They can do whatever they want. However. I was like, if you’re gonna honor the tradition of Jerk, there are plenty of other things to put on the side, like you could have chose cabbage as your vegetable, which shows up widely across Afro Caribbean, like you could have also done peas and rice with the Jerk there. I mean, there’s so many things that I’ve seen, and then you keep with the flavors.

Maya Feller  20:18  
I think one of the most important things is to not to claim to know something that you don’t so like, know what you know, and if you don’t know it, then find someone who’s actually rooted and steeped in that, or who has done research in a respectful manner and can help you inform whatever you’re going to put out in a thoughtful way. And I think the other part of it is to make sure that we’re not purporting for whatever the swap is to be the better thing, right? Heritage foods are incredibly valuable when you look across the globe, I mean, everybody else tends to have better health outcomes than the U.S. And so I’m like, “We don’t need to go in there and try to westernize dishes.” So I think, you know, work with folks who are rooted in the tradition, and if you don’t have access to that, then seek out research that’s been done in a respectful way.

Shireen Abdullah  21:23  
Super helpful. Maya, we’re coming toward the end of the episode. We’re going to try to squeeze in one more question: what’s one widely circulated nutrition tip that you’ve heard of that actually undermines culturally rooted eating patterns?

Maya Feller  21:39  
Oh, my goodness, yeah. So one tip that I’ve heard that I think is so funny is people being like, “Put the sauce on the side. You know, put the sauce on the side.” There’s so many dishes. So my family’s from Trinidad and Tobago, and we have, like, a lot of Channa and, like, Dhal-type dishes and curries, you cannot put that sauce on the side. There’s no way. Like, if you’re having roti, you can. There’s no, there’s no way to put the sauce on the side, right? So if we’re talking to someone, then maybe I’ll say, “Like, oh, you know, maybe think about how much potato you’re putting in the roti. Or maybe ask them if they could put, you know, a little bit less pumpkin in there. Or if they have, you know, aloo, they could do some aloo in there.” Like, play with the components, but the sauce on the side thing. Yeah, that doesn’t work across the globe.

Shireen Abdullah  22:37  
And I can totally second that as a Dhal fan myself. I can second that it cannot be on the side ever.

Maya Feller  22:44  
Right.

Shireen Abdullah  22:45  
100% defeats the purpose. Why? Why even bother?

Maya Feller  22:48  
Completely, completely, completely.

Shireen Abdullah  22:51  
With that. Maya, we are towards the end of the episode. At this point, I would love for our listeners to know how they can connect with you and stay informed about your work.

Maya Feller  23:01 
Thanks so much. So folks can sign up for my newsletter on my website, mayafellernutrition.com, you can find me across social @mayafellerRD, and if you happen to be in New York, I do hit the streets. And I take people’s questions live, and oh my gosh, Shireen, they’re wild, and then we post them up on YouTube. Very fun.

Shireen Abdullah  23:23  
Absolutely love that, and we’ll link everything up below on this episode. Thank you so much, Maya, for your time. To our listeners, thank you for tuning in to another episode of the Yumlish podcast. Head over to our Facebook or Instagram and answer this quick question which is: What is your favorite traditional cuisine from your culture? Very quickly, again, head over to @Yumlish on Facebook, on Instagram, find this podcast post and comment below again to tell us: what is your favorite traditional cuisine from your culture? We will continue the conversation there. Maya, it was an absolute pleasure having you on. Thank you so much.

Maya Feller  24:00  
Thanks for having me.

Shireen Abdullah  24:04  
Thank you for listening to the Yumlish podcast. Make sure to follow us on social media, @Yumlish_ on Instagram and Twitter, and @Yumlish on Facebook and LinkedIn, for tips about managing your diabetes and other chronic conditions, and to chat and connect with us about your journey and perspective. You can also visit our website, Yumlish.com, for more recipes, advice, and to get involved with all of the exciting opportunities Yumlish has to offer. If you like this week’s show, make sure to subscribe so you can hear more from us every time we post. Thank you again, and we’ll see you next time. Remember, your health always comes first. Stay well.

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