Shireen Abdullah: 00:02 

Podcasting from Dallas, Texas, I am Shireen and this is the Yumlish Podcast. Yumlish is working to empower you to take charge of your health through diet and exercise and reduce the risk of chronic conditions like type 2 diabetes and heart disease. We hope to share a unique perspective and a culturally relevant approach to managing these chronic conditions with you each week.

Shireen Abdullah: 00:33

South Asian food is rich, rooted, and fully compatible with better health. The episode turns culture into a toolkit. How to adapt beloved dishes without losing flavor, fuel vegetarian protein, iron, B12 needs, and navigate fasting seasons while keeping glucose steady. Stay to the end for three simple changes you can start today.

Shireen Abdullah: 00:57

Fareeha Jay is an award-winning dietitian and former NHS diabetes specialist with six years of experience delivering education to people newly diagnosed. She specializes in South Asian diets and provides expert evidence-based nutrition advice to South Asians worldwide. She has developed the South Asian Eatwell Guide, which is now widely used in many NHS trusts and various charity organizations. Welcome, Fareeha.

Fareeha Jay: 01:23

Hello, Shireen. Thank you so much for having me. 

Shireen Abdullah: 01:26

It is an absolute pleasure. So first things first, I want to start out with a question we commonly ask our guests at the top of the episode, which is why this? So essentially, could you tell us what drew you to focus on South Asian diets and nutrition?

Fareeha Jay: 01:40 

First and foremost, I’m from the South Asian background. So that’s the major point, isn’t it? But how it started was that when I qualified, you know, I wanted to take a short break. I said, “OK, I’m qualified. I want a year break. I want to rest at home and then I’ll start working.” So within that one year, I decided to form a Facebook group. And that Facebook group was focused on South Asian diets. I thought, you know, I’ll make some posts.

Fareeha Jay: 02:02 

some videos talking about South Asian diets and people. But I didn’t realize as soon as I started that Facebook group, it became really big. Thousands and thousands of followers within a few months. And then I realized that there is this gap. There is this gap of knowledge and information for South Asian people across the globe. And every day I’m getting these questions. And then I realized that why not? Yes, I was always thinking what will be my niche? 

Fareeha Jay: 02:27

I intended to become a diabetes specialist but then again why not a South Asian diabetes specialist or why not working for the South Asians and as when I qualified and after this happened I was like “Yeah I got my niche I know what to do now” and then from there I just focused on South Asian diets, South Asian health conditions

Fareeha Jay: 02:46

started working with South Asian people, started my own private clinic, consultations, presentations, talks just for South Asians so that, you know, I can build that bridge of knowledge and information for the South Asians about diet and lifestyle, which I never realized that there is this big gap.

Shireen Abdullah: 03:02 

And it truly is. I mean, you know, what we’re talking about here today, Fareeha, is really near and dear to my heart. In fact, it was the inception of what has now turned into Yumlish. A while ago, I was diagnosed with a diet-related chronic condition. I was trying to figure out what to do differently in my health and really didn’t understand, especially within the context of the South Asian foods. I really struggled. And when I went to my doctor to talk about it, the best advice he could offer was, “Yeah, just eat healthy.” And I was like,

Shireen Abdullah: 03:26 

“Okay, great. Yeah, let me just, you know, flip that switch on like, how do you go about really doing that?” And it’s complicated. Food is complicated. The types of foods you eat is complicated. The way you make it, cook it is complicated. Preparation is complicated. All of that is so layered across the different, you know, ingredients and things.

Shireen Abdullah: 03:45

So let’s start out with some of the common nutrition-related health concerns that affect South Asian communities today. You know, we’ve been talking about diabetes, but there’s also others, but please would love to get your take on what are some of those sort of common nutrition-related health concerns.

Fareeha Jay: 04:00

So, Shireen, you just mentioned diabetes and I would want to talk about that quite a lot because there is, I’m a diabetes specialist, but the numbers are growing every day. You know, diabetes, the prevalence of diabetes among South Asians is much, much higher if you compare it with the other population groups.

Fareeha Jay: 04:17 

And the driving factors can be many. It is, there is something to do with, you know, your genes, the genetic factor. But I think there is a lot to do with lifestyle. And South Asians tend to have more of the visceral fat, the adiposity. There’s more of this adiposity. And therefore, South Asians are at high risk. But I believe that, yes, we have got this genetic predisposition. But lifestyle does play a role. And here, the dietitian’s role comes into play. That is one thing. The other, the cardiovascular diseases as well.

Fareeha Jay: 04:47

they are at rise. The heart attacks, the heart health conditions, all of them among the South Asians, there is elevated risk. Again, I will say that there is some genetic predisposition to it. But again, I would say that it’s the sedentary lifestyles which South Asians have and the increased intake of saturated fat, increased intake of salt. And sometimes I’ve realized that it is lack of awareness. What is saturated fat?

Fareeha Jay: 05:14

They don’t want heart conditions, do they? But because they are having all these foods high in saturated fats, food, salt – maybe they know, but nothing much about saturated fat. So these two health conditions, I think they are like very huge numbers of South Asian people, like almost

Fareeha Jay: 05:29

every other person I speak to and all my consultations are about heart health, diabetes, heart health, diabetes. Then I would also like to say one more thing. I don’t want to keep on talking about these health conditions. It’s quite dismal, isn’t it? But more and more when I’m getting these consultations with South Asian women, polycystic ovary syndrome is also on the rise. The research doesn’t tell us that why is it happening. But somehow I’m also seeing that I’m getting so many more women with polycystic ovary syndrome

Fareeha Jay: 05:55

every day. So these are some of the health conditions which I think are, you know, some are on the rise among the South Asian populations. But I would also like to talk about a nutritional deficiency over here as well, and that is vitamin D. For us South Asians, because of our skin, because of our darker skin, it is difficult for us to make vitamin D from the sunlight because of the UV rays and all, and because of the color of our pigment and all. And then again, there is no awareness around it. Whenever

Fareeha Jay: 06:20 

we talk about vitamin D supplementation. They’re like, “OK, why do we have to have it? Please tell us about the diet side of it,” because there is this fear among South Asians that we don’t want to have medication. We don’t want to have supplements. “So please give us foods which are high in vitamin D.” So again, the lack of awareness, all this. So there is quite the nutritional, you know, deficiencies are quite high as far as vitamin D is concerned among the South Asians.

Shireen Abdullah: 06:45

And that is so fascinating that these things exist in this particular community. I’m very much a part of that community and what you’re talking about, especially with diabetes and heart disease. And it is unfortunate that, you know, as a South Asian, I can’t think of a single cousin or someone who, you know, that we don’t have, someone doesn’t have. And we’re talking about type two diabetes, by the way.: 

Shireen Abdullah: 07:06

so if someone doesn’t have diabetes, like every generation, there are people, you know, that have diabetes. And it’s almost like, it’s almost not even surprising, which is unfortunate. It’s to the point of like, “oh, yeah, they got diabetes. Like, oh, okay. Yeah.

Shireen Abdullah: 07:21

they got it” and it’s like it was inevitable it was going to happen you know it’s like it’s unfortunate because a lot of this like you said is preventable is you know you get the appropriate nutrition lifestyle changes that you can make around it. I want to touch on the provider side and then I want to switch to sort of he patient or the individual side in in just a moment here. But how can health care providers, Fareeha, at the end of the day make nutrition counseling and understanding around like

Shireen Abdullah: 07:47

culturally responsive education, more accessible to patients? How can we move away from that experience, which very much I had, which was like, yeah, just eat healthy. How do we move past that? 

Fareeha Jay: 07:58

Shireen, this is a very good question. Believe it or not, I’ve been giving so many talks on being culturally competent. Just recently, I gave a talk to

Fareeha Jay: 08:07 

University students, which is really good. They were second year university students and talked to them about how to be culturally competent when you’re dealing with different ethnic groups. It was not specifically for South Asians, but it was just a lecture being given to students. Giving culturally competent advice is incredibly difficult, but it is something we all have to learn. Even I’m learning every day. So it’s a process.

Fareeha Jay: 08:29 

So when you say that how can all the health professionals be culturally competent, it is impossible to be accurate every time. What I always say, and I’ve given so many trainings to healthcare professionals on this as well, about South Asian diets and how to be culturally competent on the South Asian diet. What I always say is that even for me,

Fareeha Jay: 08:46

Because even the South Asian communities are so heterogeneous. There’s so many different types within the Indian communities. There’s so many other furthermore communities within the Pakistani and then Nepali and Sri Lanka. There’s so many of them. And it is impossible for anyone to know about the diet and lifestyle. So the best part for you to be giving culturally common advice is communicate. Talk to your patients.

Fareeha Jay: 09:10 

Not just say, okay, go on, have healthy diet. Here is this leaflet, go start having this. No, listen to them, understand their diet. Just talking to them. A very small icebreaker, which I always use, is that I always tend to learn how they say hello in their own language. For example, if I’m speaking to someone from Nepal, I would learn how they say hello. And as soon as I start my consultation with them, I say that one word. And just using that one word, you know, it breaks all the barriers. They feel so much more comfortable speaking to me.

Fareeha Jay: 09:40 

So starting the conversation then with them like that and listening to them, what do they have to say? Understand their diet and then, you know, respect them. What do they have to say? Add a little bit of a homework – that what sort of a cuisine does this specific group has? So when we’re talking about the South Asian communities, the basic is the roti, rice, you know, potatoes.

Fareeha Jay: 10:00

vegetables all these foods so even if you just have understanding of the base foods basic foods yeah you don’t have to understand the you know the complexities of each food group once you know start using those terms you have you know build that trust with your patient and here i would like to highlight the point where I developed the South Asian Eatwell Guide and that was the reason because

Fareeha Jay: 10:23 

Whenever I was doing these presentations and now that guide has been used by so many dietitians and doctors and nurses, because as soon as they take that out in the presentation or if they show it to their client, all of a sudden they’re like, “Oh, yes, I can recognize my foods. I understand.” So, so many times I’ve s”een my patients saying to me that, “Sorry, we can’t have oats. What do we do?” So I’m like, you don’t have to have oats. It’s okay.”

Fareeha Jay: 10:47 

Okay, and here it is. It is on the Eatwell Guide. You can have your roti, dosa, idli, whatever you feel like having. So understanding the foods, then being respectable to them, and then being a good listener. And that is all we need to provide culturally competent advice and giving some time, I think.

Shireen Abdullah: 11:04 

For the listeners who are listening to us on the audio version of this, I am nodding my head away. I couldn’t agree more. You know, one of the other things that now I want to switch to the actual foods, you know, that you touched upon here. So, you know, you have those traditional dishes, you have the rotis, you have the white rice, you have all of the naans. The traditional dishes are, they’re incredibly meaningful.

Shireen Abdullah:11:24

Right. And you said, like, that’s the way you’re sort of building that bridge with that individual, you know, connecting with them on that food. And it can be incredibly meaningful to someone, but can sometimes contribute toward this chronic disease risk that we’ve been talking about. What are some ways to adapt these classic foods without losing that cultural integrity at the end of the day?

Fareeha Jay: 11:44

Shireen, it’s very difficult. It is very difficult because when we talk about cultural integrity, South Asian diets tend to have lots of oil and ghee in them. You know, if we are asking them to not include them, they might be losing their cultural integrity saying that, you know, it is not what we have. But it’s slow. I think it’s a very slow process. So first of all, convincing your client that we are not asking you to stop having your traditional foods.

Fareeha Jay: 12:16

Making them understand that “Yeah yeah yeah and this is how i do it yeah yeah yeah” when i start the consultation “Yeah you can have this you can have that yeah yeah go for this go for that” so first i’ve built their confidence number one so now they know that they can have all their foods which they like traditional foods

Fareeha Jay: 12:31

then perhaps I would say that let’s make teeny tiny tweaks to your recipes. And you’re right, Shireen, because sometimes, you know, they have got this attachment to these specific recipes as well. “So my grandma gave this recipe to me. My grandma’s grandma gave it to me. And how can you ask me to, you know, tweak it?” So there is a thin line where, you know, sometimes, you know, there is a barter system going on as well. Sometimes I say to them “That you can carry on having this, but why not you make a change over here?” So

Fareeha Jay: 13:00 

It is very complicated at times. But once you build that trust with your patient or client, then you start discussing with them that, okay, “So you are making your curry in 10 tablespoons of oil. Can you try making it in 8 tablespoons? Can you give it a go?

Fareeha Jay: 13:16

“Oh yeah, probably, perhaps. I can go with eight.” So it’s a slow process, but it does work. And then they would say that, “Oh, we tried making our curry in eight tablespoons and it did work.” And slowly, like we wean children off, you know, milk and

Fareeha Jay: 13:32 

And I put them into food. This is also a weaning process where you explain to them that how they will reduce the amount of oil, how they will train their taste buds. I say to them that “You might not like it the first time, but I promise to you when you have it the second, third and the fourth time, your taste buds would have gotten used to it by then.” So training your taste buds with less salt. And then I say to them that I have no problem with your food.

Fareeha Jay: 13:55

The second thing which I would want to come over here is on the how we are at South Asians, we are too much focused. Our diet is too much carb focused, you know. So we’ll have a roti with potatoes and perhaps roti with vegetables as well. Chatting with my mom on the phone and my mom says to me that, “Oh, I’ve been eating really healthy.”

Fareeha Jay: 14:13

And I’m like, mom, “What did you have?” And she’s like, “I’m just having roti and vegetables, nothing else.” So there is no protein in the picture. She believes that she’s eating very healthy because she’s having roti and vegetables. There’s no protein in her diet. Then the shift explaining to my clients, to my patients and to my family as well, that see, yes, you are eating healthy. But where is the protein? “No, but we can’t have lots of meat. You know, that’s cholesterol.”

Fareeha Jay: 14:39

No, you can have your dals, your lentils, your tofu. There’s so many other sources. Think of including milk. Think of including yogurt. Think of including cheese and meat as well. Lean meats as well. That’s not a problem at all. Explaining to them that how their food should be comprising of all these three food groups. But vegetables.

Fareeha Jay: 14:56

have it in your own shape and form. So you like your vegetable masala or you like your sambar, have it. You like your roti and chole, have them. You like protein in whatever shape and form. You like your chicken karahi, have it. But just making sure that you’re having all these…

Fareeha Jay: 15:11 

three food groups in your plate so that there’s a variety and you’re getting all the required nutrients as well. 

Shireen Abdullah: 15:16

Which actually takes me to my next question. You know, for predominantly vegetarian diets, what are your go-to strategies for protein, iron, even B12? And how do you also address lactose intolerance in this cuisine?

Fareeha Jay: 15:30 

So yeah, it can be hard. It can be hard. Specifically, if the clients are vegetarian, I still find it easy because I pump up their, you know, milk and cheese and yogurts. And of course, lentils, beans, tofu, tempeh, eggs. But if a client is vegan, some of my clients from India, like from the South Asian background, with them, I struggle. I struggle quite a lot because they can’t have, they won’t have yogurt and they won’t have this. They won’t have nothing. So with that, then I have to think that, you know,

Fareeha Jay: 16:00

How many chickpeas or how many dals can they have to get their required amount? Sometimes it is not doable. Then I select those vegetables which are somewhat higher in proteins as compared to the other vegetables. Like the one example I’ll give you is of peas, green peas. Amongst vegetables, they have a little bit more protein.

Fareeha Jay: 16:18

They can’t be a protein source, but yet, yes, then there is a time where I have to include some sort of protein supplement in their diet as well. That’s that. As far as lactose intolerance is concerned, it really depends because now we get all these lactose-free drinks as well and it’s never an issue. They can get, you know, lactose-free milk, lactose-free yogurt, everything is available.

Fareeha Jay: 16:38

But if it is not, then again, it is a struggle. And then again, we have to either calculate the amount of protein they should be needing and try to, you know, fulfill their needs within, you know, lentils, beans, chickpeas, all these foods. 

Shireen Abdullah: 16:52

You know, you touched on something very interesting there, like someone who is a vegan, for instance, which actually takes me to my next question, which is, you know, in South Asian cuisines, there’s a lot of variation. So region, religion, migration history, just all sorts of variations there. And then, of course, then you’ve got all the all the different countries and the staples there.

Shireen Abdullah 17:12 

How do you navigate this complexity? It’s called South Asian, but in South Asian, there’s like a lot of different variants that, you know, like I mentioned. So how do you go about navigating this complexity when offering personalized nutrition advice?

Fareeha Jay: 17:27

I struggle. I’ll be honest, it’s not easy. So it’s the homework which I have to do. So I know that I’m seeing this because I make them fill this form and I have to know a client before, all the information before I speak to them. So I know that, “Okay, this client is from this specific region. I will do my research,” but I’m telling you that research is never, never right. And I have to speak to them. I do my homework. And then as I said earlier to you, Shireen, that it’s all about listening and talking.

Fareeha Jay: 17:53 

They love telling you stories. They would sit for hours if you ask them, “Okay, tell me about your food.” They would like, “Oh, let me tell you, come to my house.” They’ll invite me and they will ask me to, you know. So that is not a problem. So once I familiarize myself with their diet, which is also something new for me every time, then I can, you know.

Fareeha Jay: 18:12 

then I can communicate with them and then I make plans for them literally and I then devise, you know, this amount, that amount, have it in this amount. But the initial communication with your client or your patient is incredibly important. 

Shireen Abdullah: 18:27 

How do you coach patients through fasting and feasting cycles? And what I mean by that is everything from Ramadan where you’re, you know, you’re

Shireen Abdullah: 18:33 

You’re fasting during the day and then you’ve got your festivities like your Eid and your Navratri and your Ekadashi and a whole bunch of different festivals and seasons where we’re just eating our heart out. So how do you coach patients through these cycles while keeping glucose, energy and hydration stable?

Fareeha Jay: 18:51 

It depends. All these different occasions, it depends. So if it’s Navratri, you’re fasting. But if it’s something like, if it’s celebratory, for example, let’s talk about celebration. I say to them, “Celebrate. Have a nice time. Enjoy yourself. It’s just for a one day or two days and then back to routine.” The problem is, the problem is that once they eat,

Fareeha Jay: 19:13 

the two days for example they’ll say “Oh I might as well eat every day you know I might as well oh what’s the point then I’ve just broken the the cycle.” and I say to them “No this is where you have to adopt it as a lifestyle so it have you you ate for two days three days and then back again to your routine.” So there’s one side to it

Fareeha Jay: 19:33 

It all depends on the person. One, sometimes I give this advice. On the other hand, if someone really wants to be careful, then there is also a way. I explain to them that how they have to portion out their plate, how they have to plan it. So for instance, if they’re going for a meal, first of all, wherever you go, there’ll always be vegetables. There’ll be salads or some sort of vegetables will always be there. So I always ask them to quickly rush and fill half of their plate with vegetables. Yeah, that’s done.

Fareeha Jay: 20:00 

Then I say to them that “The thing which you have to really regulate is the amount of carbs.” So if there is roti, naan, rice, whatever, just think about everything quarter. So if that is your plate, you fill half your plate with vegetables, I say to them that the quarter, “Just fill it up with naan or, you know, rice, whatever.”

Fareeha Jay: 20:16 

As far as protein is concerned, for example, if there’s chickpeas, channa, or, you know, there is chicken, meat, keema, whatever, I say to them, “Don’t worry about it. Fill your plate up with it. It’s protein, just have it. You’re having your vegetables, you’re having your protein, you’re just restricting your carbs.” Then with the desserts as well, I say to them “That you don’t have to fill your tummy up with it.”

Fareeha Jay: 20:38 

so you know just have few bites enjoy every bit of it you know with each spoonful you know you cherish that Gulab Jamun you know enjoy that and move on just forget about it and just do something else start talking to someone or start dancing or whatever so you don’t think of other things so there are two sides – one just eat whatever and the second is the advice now you’re talking about the fasting side of it as well.

Fareeha Jay: 21:03 

You know, Shireen, I get so busy during the fasting, during the month of Ramadan as well. I get so many people coming in because they think that this is the time to lose weight as well. You know, they think that they will. But then again, they ask me within their consultations that please, when we’re breaking our fast, please give me pakoras. Please give. I’m like, “What? So if you want to have. And then again, it’s the same thing.”

Fareeha Jay: 21:26

I say to all my clients that ‘You have to first be convinced that you want to lose weight or you want to be healthy. Forget lose weight. Let’s talk about being healthy. That you want to embrace a healthy lifestyle. And if it is your priority, you will do it. You will do anything for it.”

Fareeha Jay: 21:41 

But if you’re saying to me that “I want to have pakoras, jalebi and all this,” this means this is not your priority. Your priority is to have all these foods. So come to me. Let’s cancel this appointment. Come to me when you are ready. When you are ready to prioritize your health. You will automatically be prepared for what I’m going to give it to you and what we’re going to discuss through.

Fareeha Jay: 22:01 

So I think it is very important to first find out what your client’s priority in life is. If one, two, three, four, five, if it is six, go back home. When it is number one, then come to me and then we’ll talk about it. 

Shireen Abdullah: 22:15

That’s some tough love there for you.

Shireen Abdullah: 22:17 

We are coming toward the end of this episode. For our listeners over here for the episode today who are from South Asian backgrounds, as they’re listening to this and they want to improve their nutrition while staying connected to their culture, what are perhaps three practical changes that you can point them to that they can start with today?

Fareeha Jay: 22:34

So the number one, which I’ve already mentioned, rebalance your plate. Think about the plate. Divide it into three parts, your vegetables, your protein and your carbs, not just focusing all on carbs. That’s number one. Number two, eat the same foods. Eat whatever you like to eat, but use less oil. And number three, dessert should not be automatic after your meal. It should be occasional. So all these three points, dessert occasional, less oil and rebalancing the plate.

Shireen Abdullah: 23:02 

Absolutely love it. We are toward the end of the episode here, Fareeha. Can you tell our listeners how they can connect with you and then just learn more about your work and just stay in touch? 

Fareeha Jay: 23:12

So I’ve got my website, www.fareehajay.com. You can visit my website. I’m very active on my Facebook page – Fareeha Jay, Instagram – dietitian_fareehajay. I make TikToks as well. You’ll find me on TikTok. You’ll find me on YouTube. You’ll find me on LinkedIn. So I’m there on all social media platforms. If you Google me, you’ll find me.

Shireen Abdullah: 23:32

I absolutely love this episode. Fareeha, thank you so very much for your time here today. To our listeners, thank you for tuning in to another episode of the Yumlish Podcast. You know what time it is at this point in the episode. We ask you to head over to our social media and answer a quick question. And today’s question is, what traditional South Asian dish means the most to you, to your family, and how have you adapted it, if at all, to support your health?

Shireen Abdullah: 23:56 

So again, head over to @Yumlish on Facebook, on Instagram, find this podcast post and comment below again to tell us which traditional South Asian dish means the most to you, your family, and how have you adapted it to make it supporting for your health. So we’ll continue the conversation there Fareeha. Thank you so much again.

Shireen Abdullah: 24:17 

Thank you for listening to the Yumlish podcast. Make sure to follow us on social media at Yumlish_ on Instagram and Twitter and at Yumlish on Facebook and LinkedIn for tips about managing your diabetes and other chronic conditions and to chat and connect with us about your journey and perspective.

Shireen Abdullah: 24:37 

You can also visit our website, yumlish.com, for more recipes, advice, and to get involved with all of the exciting opportunities Yumlish has to offer. If you like this week’s show, make sure to subscribe so you can hear more from us every time we post. Thank you again, and we’ll see you next time. Remember, your health always comes first. Stay well.

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