Shireen Abdullah: 00:02

Podcasting from Dallas, Texas, I am Shireen and this is the Yumlish Podcast. Yumlish is working to empower you to take charge of your health through diet and exercise and reduce the risk of chronic conditions like type 2 diabetes and heart disease.

Shireen Abdullah: 00:22 

We hope to share a unique perspective and a culturally relevant approach to managing these chronic conditions with you each week.

Shireen Abdullah: 00:38

Denee Bex is a registered dietitian and CDCES from the Diné Navajo Nation and is the owner of Tumbleweed Nutrition LLC, a dietetics and nutrition education consulting firm. She teaches her native community about nutrition without judgment. Denee provides inclusive and evidence-based nutrition education for organizations which honor American Indian heritage. Welcome, Denee.

Denee Bex: 01:05

 Hi, thank you so much for having me. 

Shireen Abdullah: 01:08

Such a pleasure having you on. So, Denee, I want to jump right in. But before we do, I want to understand a little bit more about your own background and what really inspired you to focus on this intersection of Indigenous food and health.

Denee Bex: 01:21
Yeah, so I can give you a little bit about my background. First, I probably should introduce myself in Navajo, just in case we get some Navajo relatives listening in. [Denee speaks in Navajo]

Denee Bex: 01:38

So as you can probably assume, I am Navajo. I am originally from the Navajo Reservation.

Denee Bex: 1:45

I grew up there, born and raised. When I left high school, I thought I was done with the reservation. However, it drew me back. And, you know, I really saw a need for more culturally inclusive nutrition education. And so I ended up pursuing my dietetics degree, went to get my Master’s in Public Health after doing some work as a diabetes health coach. 

Denee Bex: 02:09 

And that was essentially a CDCES, but without the pay. And so and I work there at IHS hospital. So what really inspired me was just to provide that resource for culturally relevant, culturally respectful education, not just in diabetes, but also in nutrition. You know, there’s definitely a huge need for seeing that kind of care.

Denee Bex: 02:30

Many of our healthcare providers don’t look like us or may not come from like a similar background as mine. That really does a disservice to our communities in how we’re trying to help, how we’re trying to support people who have diabetes.

Denee Bex: 02:43

That’s kind of where I’m coming from is I pull all these different experiences of growing up on the rez, growing up in a food insecure environment, having inadequate access to indoor plumbing and water. You know, those are things that we aren’t taught in healthcare professional training. To get my dietetics degree, I went to Arizona State University. We didn’t talk about that at all. And when I went back to the reservation to become a dietitian, it was a learning curve because I wasn’t  prepared to counsel people in those types of situations. 

Denee Bex: 03:14

Of course, you know, I knew it from my background, but it was – it’s just a different ballgame when you’re asked to counsel about it. And so I definitely had to do some deep work and come up with my own resources and learn different methods of counseling. And that’s kind of what’s informed my work now. So I work with hospitals to do healthcare professional training about this because I’m just trying to be that resource and I really enjoy it. 

Denee Bex: 03:40

I do Tumbleweed Nutrition full time and I’ve been doing it since 2021. And it’s definitely gratifying to be able to provide a resource that wasn’t there before. I don’t know of any other Native dietitian that is doing, you know, their own consulting firm, at least on the western side of the United States. I know of like one or two people back on the East Coast, but this really is a new model of trying to deliver health care in a way that works for our communities.

Shireen Abdullah: 04:05

And I love the focus is around, you know, sort of looking at that competence, that element that you don’t see. You know, you mentioned providers don’t look like you. You’re not surrounded by people who look like you in your own care. And then that just leaves like a huge gap needing to be filled.

Shireen Abdullah: 04:20

How do traditional Indigenous eating practices, you know, take it back to the nutrition element of our conversation here today, but how do you think these traditional Indigenous eating practices really support cardiovascular health overall?

Denee Bex: 04:36 

Yeah. And just to give you a little statistic, there’s about 110,000 registered dietitians in the U.S. and less than .5 percent identify as Indigenous. So that’s like less than 500 people. And many of them are working in Native communities as part of the clinic system, as part of the IHS system or 638 system. It really disconnects us from providing that culturally competent care.

Denee Bex: 05:02

So when it comes to Indigenous foodways, right now we’re really seeing a resurgence of trying to bring back Indigenous foodways, Indigenous practices. You know, after a very much concerted effort of centuries of trying to get rid of our practices and beliefs, we’re now at a point saying like, “Hey, wait a minute, these foods were healthy for us, have always been healthy for us.”

Denee Bex: 05:24

And so what we call Indigenous food sovereignty is about trying to reclaim some of those foods and practices that were deliberately taken away from us. That’s where I like to come in and I could talk a little bit about Indigenous foodways. There are so many more knowledgeable people than me.

Denee Bex: 05:42

And I like to come at it from a perspective of, “OK, my dietitian, my clinical experience, and how do we pair that with some of this food sovereignty movement? And how do I, as a dietitian, support those people who are trying to bring back those practices?” And so some of my work involves working with local Navajo farmers, local school systems, trying to get traditional Indigenous foods into school systems, into hospital settings. Again, how do we talk about it in a clinical setting as well?

Denee Bex: 06:11 

And that’s something that’s very, very much missing in our education and in our training. And so what we can take from Indigenous foodways, definitely, when it comes to supporting a person, what’s happening now, I feel like, in nutrition mainstream is that there’s an understanding that nutrition is holistic. It’s not just about the nutrients that we’re eating. We don’t go out and think about, I’m going to go eat vitamin C today.

Denee Bex: 06:35

You know, no, we’re going to go out and maybe have some mangoes or we’re going to have some oranges. The understanding now is that food is more than nutrients. Food is more than sustenance. Food is also community. Food is also family. Food is also connection. And that’s something that many of our Indigenous families, Native families have known for centuries, if not thousands of years.

Denee Bex: 06:57

Understanding that it’s all about that balance. It’s all about recognizing, yes, this is an energy source, but also it’s it’s also connection. And that’s definitely something I wasn’t taught in school. When we think about our communities, we think about, you know, those foods like Blue Corn Mush (Tóshchíín). We think about all of those foods that grandma used to make that were nourishing to us.

Denee Bex: 07:20

And so, you know, my role as a dietitian is to kind of support and elevate those foods and talk about them as, yes, they are, quote unquote, valid sources of nourishment, because for so long we’ve been told they weren’t valid sources. Instead, we need to eat whole grain bread and whole grain crackers and, you know, all of these very much Western foods.

Denee Bex: 07:39

And that’s not to say like we don’t, you know, I reject all of those foods because I don’t because I know everybody’s living their lives. They’ve got to be realistic. But also my work is about how do we integrate some of those traditional foods or how do we reconnect with those foods as well?

Denee Bex: 07:55
Because many of our families, you know, what we’re seeing right now is many of our families, they’re losing that connection, they’re losing the touch that they’ve had with it, and it’s not being passed on to kids. Some of my work is going out and doing cooking classes and how to make not only like the traditional versions of the food we make, like the Blue Corn Mush or the Tóshchíín that I mentioned, but also how do we use these foods in like new ways? 

Denee Bex: 08:20

And that’s something that gets forgotten about when we’re talking about nutrition and Native communities is, you know, we’ve had centuries of this you know, very intentional destruction of our food systems. We’re losing touch with it. 

Denee Bex: 08:33

And the question now is, is how do we get that back? But also, how do we get it back in a way that works for us? How do we how do we get it back in a way that works for our communities now? You know, that’s a little bit about, you know, how we talk about foodways and practices like mindfulness, like gratefulness, like appreciation. And how does that support us in our nutrition journey?

Shireen Abdullah: 08:54

The other part of the question really I’m trying to understand is how do these foods support positive health outcomes for an individual? How do you help individuals understand that bridge to Indigenous foods and health outcomes? 

Denee Bex: 09:07

Well, you know, we can definitely highlight, you know, what are those high fiber foods? Of course, high fiber foods are going to, you know, support cardiovascular health and support our blood sugar management. And so kind of figuring out what foods –

what traditional or Indigenous foods are out there that have these health benefits. Like I mentioned, again, Blue Corn Mush you know, it is higher fiber. It’s a hot cereal. Think of it like grits. The grain is a little bit finer. That’s the ancestor of grits. So we don’t do with all like the butter and the, you know, people add sugar, but not no cheese. It’s just like cornmeal and water, and some ash.

Denee Bex 09:43

Yeah. So we can like look as a dietitian, we can look at these nutrients that support our heart health, support our glucose management. But also we also have to remember that other piece is that connection piece is, you know, part of health is about feeling connected. So how do we bring back some of these foods that remind them of grandma?

Denee Bex: 10:01

Or remind them of their family. The other thing is, again, going back to the Blue Corn Mush, you know, definitely full of antioxidants. It has, you know, anthocyanins, which is shown to have that cardiovascular benefits. So it’s the same antioxidants as present in blueberries. It’s what gives it that color purple. So we can look at all these different foods and kind of identify, OK, how does this support our heart health?

Denee Bex: 10:23 

Yes, it nourished us in the past. And, you know, many of our people knew that it was healthy for us. But now, you know, we have chemical analysis that can break down what kind of antioxidant is present in this in this food and why is it going to support our health?

Denee Bex: 10:38

And that’s kind of where the hard places, the difficult, the challenge that we face is that many of our foods are, one, being forgotten about. Yes, they’re being revitalized, but, you know, there’s definitely a lot of lost knowledge that we’ve had to face around these foods and a lot of lost practices. Two is that many of these traditional or Indigenous foods haven’t really been legitimized or studied.

Denee Bex: 11:05 

Or scientifically analyzed, like chemically analyzed. And so that’s kind of an issue where I run into. So for instance, I’ll give you an example. USDA has a nutrient database, right? We can go online, look up how much vitamin A does this particular food have? And it’ll tell us how much, according to the USDA, this is how much vitamin A has. That accessibility isn’t as prevalent for Native foods as much as we’d like. So for instance, like one of the issues I run into is I use Sumac Berries in some of my recipes, my dishes, my cooking classes.

Denee Bex: 11:42
And the Sumac Berry is indigenous to America. This particular type of Sumac Berry is indigenous. There’s some like in the Middle East that’s used, but it’s a different type of family species. Not species, but you know what I mean. The one that’s indigenous to North America, there really isn’t any analysis about it. So I can’t say this has this much vitamin C. And I can’t look up on the USDA nutrient database because the one that it says is the one that’s from the Middle East or the Mediterranean area.

Denee Bex: 12:11
And so when I’m using these ingredients, I’m like, I know it’s healthy. I know it’s high fiber. I could taste the vitamin C, the ascorbic acid in it, but I don’t know how much is in here. I do work with like labs, agricultural, ag university labs to get some stuff analyzed so that I know I can confidently say this has so much of this in there.

Denee Bex: 12:32

That’s kind of the extra steps we have to take in order to do this nutrition education in our communities and to do it in a culturally respectful way is how do we like find these creative pathways to make sure that our Indigenous foods are represented.

Denee Bex: 12:47

So that’s definitely some work that needs to be done on the USDA side. Not sure it’s going to happen with this administration. You know, prior administration, it was really it felt like we were going forward with Indigenous food. But now it just feels like a standstill. You know, this work is is not something that’s going to happen in a year. It’s not going to happen in my lifetime, like for it to be solved.

Denee Bex: 13:11 

But, you know, the point is that we’re all trying to work towards this, you know, having more Indigenous foods represented in our communities. So, yeah, that’s just a small snippet of what I face being a dietitian, being a diabetes educator, business person, entrepreneur, all these different things.

Shireen Abdullah: 13:30

In what ways do Indigenous food practices emphasize holistic health, even beyond nutrition alone? 

Denee Bex: 13:39

So many of the foods that we are connected with, many of our traditional staples, and of course, you know, I’m Navajo. I can’t speak for, I can only speak for myself. You know, I like to tell people I talk from experience of an Indigenous woman who grew up on the reservation, on the Navajo Reservation, who works in rural communities.

Denee Bex: 14:00

Like that’s a super niche area. And I can’t speak for other tribes. However, you know, there are some common themes that we see when it comes to Indigenous practices. Of course, that mindfulness, of course, that gratefulness. So, for example, in my tribe, when there is a ceremony that’s going to happen, a blessing away ceremony or a Kinaaldá, or what happens is the family or the community goes out and harvests the taproot of a Yucca plant.

Denee Bex: 14:30

And so I shouldn’t say harvest. OK, they do harvest it. However, there is that mindfulness when it comes to going out to harvest it. You know, there’s a small ceremony that gets done. It’s a little bit of gratitude that goes on for thanking the Yucca plant, thanking the deities for this, for providing this resource. And what happens is pull out the entire plant.

Denee Bex: 14:52 

So that’s what I mean is we don’t really harvest it. What happens is we dig a small hole next to it. We try to go down as deep as we can. We take whatever’s needed, a three or four inch piece. And then what happens is we backfill it so that the plant can still be available for the next time.

Denee Bex: 15:07

And so that’s what I mean is like there’s that mindfulness, there’s that gratitude, and there’s this concept of taking only what we need. And so that when it comes to nutrition, that’s something we can kind of relate is how do we take only what we need, especially when it comes to food? And how do we also have that balance and gratefulness towards our food? The other thing is many of our foods, many of our staple foods are connected to creation stories as well. And so, for example, corn, we historically grew White Corn, Blue Corn, Yellow Corn, and these corn types are connected with different physical elements. 

Denee Bex: 15:43

It’s connected to the genders. For instance, White Corn versus Yellow Corn. There’s a difference between the genders. When we talk about these traditional foods or these staple foods, it’s not just about the corn itself. Could be related to some of these creation stories. And with my work as part of my company, you know, I’m asked to go out to other tribes and I like to do my due diligence.

Denee Bex: 16:05

Because I don’t even feel like I’m an expert on Navajo food because there’s so many other people, so many other traditional knowledge holders who know more about traditional food. But I like to go out to these other communities and do my due diligence and find out, “OK, what foods are important to you and how are they connected to your creation stories?” And that really gives you a better idea of how important it is to the community. So it’s just not a matter of coming into the community as a healthcare professional and saying you need to stop eating corn. 

Denee Bex: 16:36

You need to stop eating Wild rice. You need to stop eating other staple crops because you’re not just denying them that food, that sustenance. You’re also denying them their identity and their culture. And so that’s what I want to remind healthcare professionals about when we’re talking about food in our communities is like there’s stories behind that. There’s identity behind that. And it’s not appropriate to say that to our community members. Even if you think it’s quote unquote unhealthy, there’s stories behind that. 

Shireen Abdullah: 17:06

For people who want to connect with traditional foods, but either, you know, they may have limited access, let’s say, what practical strategies can you recommend for them? And, you know, the second part of what you just mentioned, which is how can healthcare or even nutrition professionals better support such efforts? 

Denee Bex: 17:23

That is my specialty. So I definitely, first and foremost, when it comes to supporting foods, I recommend supporting Native food producers. That is their livelihood. Oftentimes they’re using that as supplementary income and that’s not their main source of income. So for many of the farmers and the producers, they have a regular full time, probably an office job, but on the side they’re growing corn and then they sell it on the weekend during the summer at farmer’s markets.

Denee Bex: 17:53

So first and foremost, I think it’s important to support Native food producers. It’s getting easier now that, you know, we can buy things online. There’s a few like Indigenous food marketplaces that I like to recommend people go to. The American Indian Foods Trademark Directory kind of gives you a better idea of who’s out there, who is legitimate because there are many people who like to brand their food as Native or Native produced, and it’s not, unfortunately. 

Denee Bex: 18:23

The other thing is, you know, when it comes to integrating it into the clinic, how do we incorporate these Native foods into clinical settings? Can we provide resources? Can we provide handouts? Can we provide cooking classes for our patients living with diabetes or heart failure? And then how do we kind of work all of that together?

Denee Bex: 18:41 

How do we get Native producers into maybe inpatient menus as well? And so there’s a lot of different ways to do it. It just takes a little bit of creativity, a little bit of persistence, and a little bit of curiosity on behalf of the healthcare professional too, and kind of checking your biases and thinking like, “Wait a minute, is there a certain way I think about this Indigenous food? And how does that affect the way I give my patients recommendations?” 

Denee Bex: 19:06 

Because I definitely have heard of many providers not recommending traditional foods or telling patients to stop eating their traditional foods and eat more Western, quote unquote, healthy diet. And so some of that is also recognizing our biases. Yeah, that’s that’s it’s a lot, but definitely I’m happy to connect with people who want to learn more about it.

Shireen Abdullah: 19:29

How would you like to see Indigenous knowledge and food practices integrated in sort of your broad mainstream nutrition and healthcare systems?

Denee Bex: 19:38

I think there definitely needs to be more of a discussion broadly about how food policies, historical food policies and current food policies affect our patients’ ability to eat and have options in their community. I think that’s just a general thing that all dietitians’ programs, dietetic programs need to address is understanding.

Denee Bex: 20:00 

Not everybody has access to eat Kale and Quinoa every day, even though, like, ironically, Quinoa is an Indigenous food. It’s now been relegated to, you know, other ecosystems, more privileged ecosystems.

Denee Bex: 20:16

So that’s definitely broadly, but more when it comes to Indigenous foods, I can imagine, you know, us spending a little bit more time about understanding how some of these policies impact our ability to eat. So how do we look at different eras in our Indigenous history, like the boarding school era? Now we’re going through revitalization era. You know, how did how do these different, you know, acts of Congress affect our ability to eat? How does loss of land affect our ability to eat?

Denee Bex: 20:44

So I think there definitely needs to be more discussion because there’s a lot of nuance to that. It’s not as simple as just going in and saying, “Stop eating Frybread and eat more carrots or replace Frybread with whole wheat flour.” Yeah, those are great recommendations in theory. However, like we also have to recognize what are all of these other issues that affect our patient’s ability to access nourishing food, to access higher fiber foods, to access foods with a healthier fat profile.

Shireen Abdullah: 21:16

We are toward the end of the episode, Denee. I’d love for our listeners to just know how they can connect with you and stay in touch with, you know, your work. 

Denee Bex: 21:24

You can find me on my website, tumbleweednutrition.com. I am on social media. I do post on Instagram primarily. And I can proudly boast that I am pretty much the only Native dietitian with over 40,000 following. And so we’re still building it. You can also find me on Facebook as well.

Denee Bex: 21:43 

We just released a free CEU for RDs about how to introduce Indigenous foods to baby. And so if you want a free CEU and you want to learn more about Indigenous foods and a little bit about how to recommend them in your practice, definitely look it up on my website. I also have four free recipes that I collaborated with at Navajo Farmer.

Shireen Abdullah: 22:14

Lovely. And we’ll link all of that up in the show notes below. With that, Denee, thank you so very much for your time. It’s such an absolute pleasure having this conversation with you. And to our listeners, thank you for tuning into another episode of the Yumlish Podcast. It is that time to head over to your social media and answer this quick question, “Which is what traditional or ancestral food from your own culture would you like to explore or incorporate more often for better heart health?” Again,

Shireen Abdullah: 22:39

Head over to at Yumlish on Facebook on Instagram find this podcast post and comment below again to tell us “Which traditional or ancestral food from your own culture would you like to explore or incorporate more often for better heart health?” We’ll continue the conversation over there Denee an absolute pleasure thank you again.

Shireen Abdullah: 22:57

Thank you for listening to the Yumlish podcast. Make sure to follow us on social media at Yumlish_ on Instagram and Twitter and at Yumlish on Facebook and LinkedIn for tips about managing your diabetes and other chronic conditions and to chat and connect with us about your journey and perspective.

Shireen Abdullah: 23:17

You can also visit our website, Yumlish.com, for more recipes, advice, and to get involved with all of the exciting opportunities Yumlish has to offer. If you like this week’s show, make sure to subscribe so you can hear more from us every time we post. Thank you again, and we’ll see you next time. Remember, your health always comes first. Stay well.

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Website URL: www.tumbleweednutrition.com

Instagram URL: @tumbleweed_nutrition

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