In today's episode, we sit down with Elaine McGee, a registered dietitian who's also known as the recipe doctor. She shares tips on how to make healthy eating more approachable, clears up common misconceptions about carbs and explains how food synergy can play a powerful role in managing blood sugar, from low-carb foods to strategies when eating out. Elaine offers practical advice for anyone looking to better manage diabetes or simply eat healthier. Stay tuned. Shireen: Podcasting from Dallas, Texas. I am Shireen, and this is the Yumlish Podcast. Yumlish is working to empower you to take charge of your health through diet and exercise and reduce the risk of chronic conditions like type two diabetes and heart disease. We hope to share a unique perspective [00:01:00] and a culturally relevant approach to managing these chronic conditions with you each week. Elaine McGee is the author of 25 books, including the best selling “Tell Me What to Eat if I Have Diabetes?” and “Food Synergy,” named a top dietician by today's dietitian and diabetes forecast. She created Stanford's performance dining program, later adopted by the NFL and NHL teams. Elaine also wrote the recipe Doctor column and served as a Web MD expert for over a decade. Welcome, Elaine.

Elaine: Thanks for having me!

Shireen: Such a pleasure having you on So Elaine, you have this incredible, incredible career. You've done some amazing things. I do want to start off by asking, What sparked your interest in nutrition and healthy cooking, and more importantly, how did you come to be known as the [00:02:00] recipe doctor. Where did that come from?

Elaine: Well, I'm on the older side. So when you say, what started this, we're going way back. I was a dancer growing up. That was my sport, musical theater and dancing. And I was just very interested in health, right, from an anatomy, physiology point of view, and so I just kind of found myself majoring in dietetics, and always knowing I was going to do something different with it. I knew that I couldn't be a clinical dietitian, that putting me this creative force in that kind of position wouldn't be using my passions, my creativity. So I just, for most of my job Shireen, I actually created myself. And pitched this, to answer your other question about, where did the recipe doctor come from? That was a column I pitched like in the 90s, the early nine- , I'm trying to even think, no, the 80s. Holy cow. Anyway, I'm aging myself. But [00:03:00], and it was because my passion was kind of doctoring recipes, taking recipes that people loved, that were their favorites, or favorite foods at a restaurant. And they would back then, there was no email or the internet or anything, so they would mail letters to me and say, “Hey, here's my grandmother's, you know, carrot cake. Can you make it healthier?” So that's where The Recipe Doctor name came from, but it turned into a syndicated column for about 10 years. So I recently, sort of, well recently, five years ago, brought it back in my Instagram. So my Instagram's @therecipedoctor all spelled out, but I just kind of like that, because it, it's medical, and yet not medical. So anyway, but that's what got me into nutrition. Was just being a dancer growing up, and being interested in photography, creating recipes. We didn't have a lot of money growing up, and I just got creative in the kitchen, taking a can of tuna [00:04:00] and some flour and eggs and making tuna crepes, for example. So what I've done in my career is kind of put all my different interests together, you know, from performing in a way, you know, when I do presentations or go on radio or television with writing, I've always loved to write. So anyway, that's and it's been, I'm very grateful for the very diverse career that I've had.

Shireen:That's amazing. I do want to start getting into, and I love how you took your own experience and turned it into, okay, this is the path I want to charter for myself, and I want to create and how I want to help people just starting with your your own pain point and trying to figure things out for yourself. I do want to start out by understanding some of the myths misconceptions around food and nutrition. So one that we hear often, and I feel like we've probably addressed this several times, but I feel like we still hear it often, which is this confusion around carbs [00:05:00], this demonizing of carbs , can you explain what carbs actually are? So let's just take it back to the basics. You'll start there, and then the difference between what we hear as good carbs and bad carbs.

Elaine: Yeah, that's a whopper. Well, you know, in terms of calories, we have three choices, carbohydrates, fat and protein. So carbs are sort of the starch, the sugars and the starches in the foods that we can eat and our body digests it into fuel, basically glucose energy. So helpful, right? Carbs are helpful. And what I say to people sometimes is, you know, think about some of the most nutritious plant foods, right? Like legumes, berries, you know, dark leafy greens, like all of those, have carbohydrates in them, right? Whole grains, [00:06:00] so, and we've been consuming them as humans, most a lot of that, for centuries, right? So it's not that I think grains are, quote unquote bad. It's, it's perhaps, how we've been processing them over time, and it's those types of things, right? And then I think, from a sugar standpoint, I think what's happened is that we've processed, if you kind of follow patterns of obesity, chronic disease, you can kind of see how we've altered our intake and the way that we process and consume foods over time. So it's kind of like it's not, it's not the whole grain necessarily, for example, it's what we've done to it and how we're consuming it and what we're consuming it with, like, those types of things. It's just not that simple. And so for me, if you, everybody knows, generally, fiber is good, right? Fiber is good. Well, where is fiber? [00:07:00] Fibers in carbs. Fiber is going to be in carbs. So, so. And I also think what's been missing in some of this conversation lately is the our genetics, how personalizing what we do and how we do it. Our genetics matters, and when you do like, certain genetics are going to do better with a certain kind of fat intake or protein intake or carb intake versus others. So, I mean, I think, I think that's just part of it. And I think just, you know, our ethnicities, everything kind of factors in so. So anyway, to answer your question, though, I think of more sort of, I hate, I hate the good and bad kind of terminology, but I'll say smart carbs. So there are definitely smart carbs. And the carbs that are smart, are the ones that come with nutrients and fiber. Those are the smart ones, right? So, so berries [00:08:00] are wonderful. You know, any kind of dark leafy green, our nuts and seeds, our legumes, like we've been consuming those as humans for for centuries. So I feel like, instead of getting caught up in all of the other stuff, it's kind of just coming back to that, right? What have we been consuming for centuries. What are whole foods and getting as close to that as possible? You know within reason, because you have to, this whatever we do has to be sustainable and I just believe healthy food isn't going to do anyone any good if no one's eating it. It has to taste great and be easy to make. That's one of my mottos. Yeah.

Shireen: Makes sense. You know, speaking of which, I wonder, have you come across foods that people think are healthy for them? And I love, you know, sort of this gage that you mentioned, which is, like, take it back to the basics. What have we been eating forever? Are there? Do you run across like the opposite, which is where people think [00:09:00] certain foods are healthy for them, but they actually end up spiking blood sugar levels. For instance.

Elaine: Yeah, I mean, the minute you said that, I thought of yogurt, right? So for me, I have a plain Greek yogurt in my fridge at all times, and I use it like sour cream. I use it for overnight chia pudding, but it's plain and unflavored. And I add, you know, vanilla paste to it. I add fresh berries, like I make fun things happen, lemon zest, you know, without the flavorings. So I think, you know, yogurt is another one where part of it's, you know, like aspects of it are helpful, right? The protein, the probiotics, but then are we adding some things to it that could affect somebody's blood sugar? I would say products. Oh, this is a, this is like a stickler for me, products that are claiming to be sugar-free or no sugar added, frozen desserts. Let's just go there, and if you literally compare the [00:10:00] total carbs with the regular product, it's often the same, you know, we're only slightly less so you're- so I could see somebody buying a pint saying, oh, there's no sugar added or whatever. And then having a pint or what have you, and them being surprised it, that it spiked their blood sugar. So I feel like, you know, processed foods in particular, like, be aware. Look at those total carbs. Look at, you know, are are you having it with fiber? Are you having it with proteins? You know, how is that being impacted? Because that that all plays a role with the blood sugar. And, you know, I think even fruits some of the higher carbohydrate fresh fruits, even. And then dried fruits can be things that people are enjoying, maybe in a larger amount, and then, not because they are healthful. They do have things that are wonderful, but when you have it in higher amounts, like watermelon is a good one. You just it's [00:11:00] a it's wonderful, hydrating, but you know, if you sit down to like a huge piece there, could have an impact on your especially if you do it just by itself, right, which many people might sit down and have watermelon just on its own, it could affect your blood sugar, so…. and sushi. Sushi is another one where it's surprising to people because of the white rice, you know, they're kind of missing that. Yeah, you're gonna get some white rice. So, you know, are you, you know, are you having the amounts that that are what you're looking for in terms of being pre diabetic or diabetic,

Shireen: Got it and so what if I understand correctly, what you're saying is not so much don't eat those foods, but eat them a little bit more sensibly, so that you're pairing it correctly. And so just some of these examples. What are the what are the types of things that we can do when we're eating sushi, when we're eating watermelon, that can also still help our blood sugar?

Elaine: I just think when, like, [00:12:00] for example, dried fruit. If you have some dried fruit, like a nice amount that, you know, if you look at the you know, how much, how many carbs you're getting, and then having it with nuts, right? Maybe not, a trail mix with M&M's in them, right? But, but a trail mix where its fruits and nuts, the nuts are going to help the fruits, they're going to, the nuts are going to help just balance that out is it's going to slow the digestion down. With watermelon, I would definitely like anything like that, bananas, I'm trying to think with some of the other, even grapes, having, you know, a small container, a nice little dish that you use to put your, some of that fresh fruit in, and then having it, maybe at the end of lunch, if you have, you know, instead of snacking on it by itself, maybe having it, you know, in a sensible serving, I like to use little dishes, little forks, little spoons. I'm kind of a little person for that reason, because it kind of helps prompt you to be satisfied [00:13:00] with less. I do that with any kind of treat or just sweet, but the fork or the little spoon kind of helps you be mindful as you're eating it and really savor it. It's really about savoring. I'm somebody who thinks, you know, I don't like that restrictive mindset of thinking I could never have this, or I can never have that, or that's bad for me. I think it's more about making the best choices we can at the same time enjoying our life in a way that's sustainable. Because healthy habits have to, they're only good if they're, if they keep going right? Instead of jumping like a roller coaster. That can be… You know that can be hard on your body to lose a lot of weight, for example, gain it back. There's a lot of weight, just that roller coaster. You're better off just, just making lifelong, sustainable healthy habits where you, where you have a mind body, spirit, health wise, right? The total health [00:14:00] of mind, body, spirit, and being excessively restrictive and fearful, I don't think is a healthy mindset, and having a healthy relationship with food, having a healthy body image, all of that people maybe don't talk about very often, but I factor that into that equation.

Shireen: Very helpful. Elaine, this takes me to another question, which, you know, when you were talking about the different types of foods, and what we're thinking, the quantity of the food, things like that, we usually hear this term called low-carb foods, right? What are some of these low-carb foods? Even when you were talking about, you know, when you're looking at something that is sugar free, for instance, but total carbs are probably equal to or more than the item that you're trying to replace in the first place. What are some low-carb foods or dishes, you know, meals that you found that work best for someone who's managing diabetes?

Elaine: Well, like we were saying in the beginning, your calories, you have a choice. Of fat,[00:15:00] protein and carbs. So if it's a low-carb meal or snack, it's going to be generally higher in protein or higher in fat. But I also really like the idea of pairing our carb choices with, so for example, whole grain toast in the morning, pairing that with something that's going to add fiber and hopefully protein, of course and smart fats. So choices are, love a good avocado toast with a pasteurized egg on top and some dark leafy greens. Boom, gotcha, that's my avocado toast right where I'm getting the protein, I'm getting some smart fats and fiber with that, that beautiful avocado and that one slice of whole grain bread is has some, is in good company, right? That's how I kind of like to look at things. But love a good lettuce wrap option for for people, chicken lettuce wraps, whatever it is, tofu [00:16:00], you can even do one that's plant based. But I love wraps. Love adding vegetables to instead of more pasta, or half the pasta, or half the …. rice, and adding in cauliflower rice, or more vegetables, or, you know, zucchini spirals, like blending things a lot, so that I'm still, I'm still sort of, it still looks like spaghetti, you know, or still looks like lasagna, but it has half as much of those carb sources in there. And then I'm pumping up the fiber, if you're adding a vegetable, or you're pumping up the protein or the smart fat, if you're factoring in something else that's going to bring that into the equation. So I kind of look at it as what are the carbs that are going to bring me nutrients by nutrient dense carbohydrates, and then how can I partner them with other great nutrient dense foods that are going to bring [00:17:00] me protein and smart fats. Again, smart fats for the smart carbs, is kind of where I'm at, but, but love a good salmon. Oh my gosh, right? Love a good salmon. Love avocados, love, you know, nut butters. Love, I mean, there's just, and I've really gotten into, I'm not a cottage cheese person, I don't it's some, it's textural, I'm sure, but there's, like, some really good, clean brands out right now with cottage cheese. So one of the things I've been doing is whipping it and then adding it to eggs and having, like, higher it just pumps up the protein, kind of three more grams of pro- If you do, I do the the proper equation is for one pasture raised egg, I'll add two tablespoons of that, my cleaner cottage cheese whipped and, you know, some salt free seasoning and herbs, yada yada, and you've got three more. So you go from six grams of protein in a pasteurized egg to nine by adding a little [00:18:00] bit of the cottage cheese. And it just kind of puts this velvety silky scrambled egg. So one example, but always looking, where's my protein? And I'm somebody I don't have prediabetes or diabetes, but I'm always trying not to have it. So I just kind of live in that world. So I'm always kind of looking and thinking as I'm creating recipes or being meals, where's my protein, where's my fiber, right? And just me, and where are my antioxidants, just kind of, where are my nutrients? And in a way, that's so fun and flavorful, it has to be those, or it's not going to work even for me.

Shireen: Yeah and I was going to say, and I'm with you, because it shouldn't feel like, burdensome, right? It shouldn't feel like an extra thing that you have to do which, which takes me to my next question, which is, like, you know, some of these modifications you mentioned, and things that you can do at home, but what are some tips for people who are trying to manage their health while also eating out, especially when it's harder to track nutrition? [00:19:00]

Elaine: Such a good question. Well, and these are just certain things I do too, right? So I try to make choices where half the meal are vegetables, non-starchy vegetables. And the reason I keep saying non-starchy vegetables is because of the starchier ones, like the potatoes, the yams, marsh parsnips, squash, butternut squash, those types of things are wonderful and are going to have nutrients and fiber. But from a like just carb total standpoint, it's just, you want to watch the amounts, right? That's all. That's all that means but, but anyway, I try to make sure I'm picking something that has plenty of those non-starchy vegetables in it and plenty of protein. So I'm, and I try to think about things I wouldn't normally make for myself at home,  that I, it potentially, depending on where I am, but um, like seafood, for example, is lovely. So I [00:20:00] kind of look for any of those things. And then I would, I if it obviously a lot of things, like pizza is combined. So then for those types of foods, you want to start with a non-starchy, like add ask for maybe a nice salad, or, if not, a nice side of vegetables. And then have, enjoy that first, and then go into your pizza, hopefully, you know, a nice amount. And then make sure you're topping your pizza with some lean protein or fiber sources too. And even if you have to add, ask for that on the side, right. So I just kind of play with that. Sometimes I plan to take half of it home. I'm just not a huge dinner eater. So if it's in front of you, like, I'll, I'll in my head say I'm taking this half home, and I'm going to really look forward to it tomorrow, right? It's a positive thing. It's not, I'm being punished, like, in my mindset, I'm not thinking I'm being punished. I'm thinking I'm going to look forward to this tomorrow. [00:21:00] So that's another thing I do. Anyway, oh, and another, lettuce wraps always good, but if you're, if it's like some kind of sandwich or hamburger or something like that, I immediately take one of the buns off and then just kind of enjoy it that way, or do a wrap. But that's a little harder. It's a little messier, obviously, in a restaurant, but I'll automatically take the bun off. And because I'm choosing my carbohydrate in that, in that situation, I'm going to choose to have one piece of the bun, and then, instead of a side of fries, I'll have salad, you know, or seasonal vegetables, and I'll enjoy it. And if, if whoever I'm with is having fries. I'll just have a couple of those, and that satisfies my, my, you know, interest in the fries, but I'm not necessarily going all in. I'm not committing. Is that helpful?

Shireen: It is very helpful. In fact, speaking of commitment. What, what do you think people find the most intimidating [00:22:00] about eating healthy or making long-term changes to their diet. What? What is it about that, that journey?

Elaine: I think it's the all or nothing approach you're all in and you're sacrificing and, and it's painful, or, I think it's that all or nothing, whereas looking at what makes sense, what is the lowest hanging fruit, where do I start? And then knowing you know you're, you're creating something that you can do for the rest of your life and feel better. And I think the hardest part's the beginning, and if for somebody, depending on where somebody is on their journey, once they start feeling better, sleeping better, having more energy. That's the reward that helps fuel those habits to keep going, but in the beginning. So I think it's sometimes it's doing too much too soon, and then you end up giving up completely. So I just it's too restrictive. Sometimes there's too many things to consider, especially now where we're hearing about food [00:23:00] additives, seed oils, organic, like, even for me, and it's, this is my topic area, it kind of blows your head a little bit. And then I have to, kind of, like, bring it back down to, you know, what can I do now? Or where is this person at now? What kinds of things are they, can they do that will be helpful, that they'll feel better, and it will last a lifetime. And I know I said lowest hanging fruit, I go back to that all the time. Like, think about what you drink, just what you're drinking can help or harm your health. What choices are you making? Like I'm having, I have my lemon water right here. I mean, that's one of my healthy beverages that I do in the morning. I have green tea. I do have decaf coffee sometimes, which is lovely, but you know, what are you drinking? And I am not, I don't drink a lot of alcohol. I think there's so much research around that [00:24:00] it's that's a habit a lot of people can start with too. Anyway, I'm not going to drink my carb calories. I'm not going to drink my calories. I'd rather eat my calories. So like, for me, that's helpful to always be thinking of that. And am I getting beverages that hydrate, that give me plant compounds like green tea? You know, the lemon water is just really refreshing, and, you know, has potential benefits too. So there's just a lot of options nowadays, unsweetened tea, even just, you know, iced in a restaurant, in that restaurant you were talking about earlier, with a with a wedge of lemon, like, you know, start there, start there, and then thinking about habits. I think I love looking at the whole science of habits. And I try to think about, are you using reminders? Are you being rewarded and repetition? So I love the idea of attaching one new habit you want to have to a habit you're already doing [00:25:00] and so, for example, there's a new probiotic I'm taking, and it's in the refrigerator, so I got to remember to take that like in the morning, right? So I'm, if I put the bottle next to the milk that I use to add to my coffee, which I'm already in the habit of doing, I'm going to go, oh yeah, probiotic. Or it's like, hopefully everybody's flossing their teeth, but if it's a new habit, you would put your floss next to your toothpaste or toothbrush to remind you that's a habit you're already doing. You're brushing your teeth, but now you're adding the floss and you're putting it next to the other habit. So just think what makes sense, like adding dark leafy greens? I buy one of those bags, those triple washed bags of kale or spinach, and I go through, we go through one a week, pretty much. And I'll put it right where I can see it as I open up the refrigerator door. It's right next to the pasture-raised eggs. So it reminds me, I'm in that habit anyway, but if I wasn't, it would remind me, oh yeah, I want to add dark leafy greens [00:26:00] every time I have eggs. Just examples right there.

Shireen: Yeah and these are great examples, and that's where the change begins, is when you're able to do that well. With that, Elaine, we are toward the end of the episode. Tell us. How can our listeners connect with you learn more about your work?

Elaine: Well, a lot of my books are on amazon.com, or any book ones. The one that I think I'm just most excited about, even now, it was written in 2000. It came out in 2008 food synergy, if you can find it, that's just a really good one. It's even more true now than it was back when I went out on a limb and wrote the book. And basically the bottom line, though, is, eat more whole foods, eat less processed foods. So here we are all these years later, and we're hearing that loud and clear, but my Instagram is @therecipedoctor, just lower case all spelled out. There is a Facebook for anybody that's on that, with the same name, the recipe doctor. So [00:27:00] I post every single day and with whatever, whatever's going on in my kitchen, whatever nutrition news is coming out, what you know, I try to talk about it. I do reels. So yeah, follow me there and message me, but I'm there every day.

Shireen: Awesome, awesome. We'll make a note of that. And by the way, we'll link up everything in the show notes so the listeners here can quickly click and be connected over to you across your socials as well. Elaine with that, thank you so very much for your time. To our listeners. Thank you for joining another episode of the yumlish podcast, and at this time, I will ask a question related to this episode, which is, what's one healthy food swap that you've made that actually tastes better than the original? Okay, so think about that one again. Head over to our Facebook, our Instagram, it's all @yumlish and find this podcast post and comment below again to tell us what is one healthy food swap you've made that actually tastes better [00:28:00] than the original? So we'll continue the conversation there and with that. Elaine, thank you so very much again for your time.

Elaine: Thank you so much.

Thank you for listening to the yumlish podcast. Make sure to follow us on social media, @yumlish_ on Instagram and Twitter and @yumlish on Facebook and LinkedIn for tips about managing your diabetes and other chronic conditions, and to chat and connect with us about your journey and perspective. You can also visit our website, yumlish.com for more recipes advice and to get involved with all of the exciting opportunities yumlish has to offer. If you liked this week's show, make sure to subscribe so you can hear more from us every time we post. Thank you again, and we'll see you next time. Remember your health always comes first. Stay well. [00:29:00]

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Instagram URL: @therecipedoctor

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Books: Tell Me What to Eat If I Have Diabetes, Food Synergy: Unleash Hundreds of Powerful Healing Food Combinations to Fight Disease and Live Well