“...So not just raising nutrition knowledge. Building basic skills, working at effective behavior change, helping with policy, the environment, the social circles, all these things need to work together in order to help someone be able to make effective change.”
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In today’s episode, we are thrilled to welcome Dr Debbie Fetter. Join us as we discuss the importance of nutrition education and the necessary reforms that need to occur within this discipline. Dr Fetter will shed light on common dietary misconceptions, and she encourages the general public to gain health agency by utilizing reliable sources for nutrition information.
Dr. Fetter is an Assistant Professor of Teaching in the Department of Nutrition at UC Davis. Dr. Fetter teaches a high-enrollment, general nutrition class in a fully online format and a traditional in-person format. Her research program focuses on inclusive education and she is currently investigating differences between online and in-person education.
Shireen [0:33]: In today’s episode, we are thrilled to welcome Dr. Debbie Fetter. Join us as we discuss the importance of nutrition education and the necessary reforms that need to occur within this discipline. Dr. Fetter will shed light on common dietary misconceptions, and she encourages the general public to gain health agency by utilizing reliable sources for nutrition information. Stay tuned. Dr. Debbie fetter is an assistant professor of teaching in the Department of Nutrition at UC Davis. Dr. Fetter teaches a high enrollment general nutrition class in a fully online format, and a traditional in person format. Her research program focuses on inclusive education, and she is currently investigating differences between online and in person Education. Welcome, Dr. Fetter.
Dr. Fetter [1:27]: Thank you so much for having me today.
Shireen [1:30]: It’s such a pleasure having you on. So Dr. Fetter, you’ve got to tell us a little bit more about how you became interested in nutrition. What was that journey like for you?
Dr.Fetter [1:38]: Oh, this is a roundabout story about what led me to the nutrition field. So growing up, food was always a big part of my household, I grew up in a kosher household so that I always had to pay attention to the foods that I was eating. And food was a really big part of my culture and background. And really, it wasn’t until high school, when I took an AP Biology class with an incredible teacher, Dr. Dowling who had a background in nutrition, and she really made the nutrition section of that class come alive. And at the same time I started running. And notice is big connection between what I ate and my running performance. And also at this time, in high school, I had a couple of close friends struggle with eating disorders and disordered eating. And I felt really helpless with how can I help people have a healthier relationship with food, and at the same time seeing all that food can do for our body in terms of writing and performance and overall well being. And so that was really the driver to encourage me to pursue this area of study. Because I honestly did not know that nutrition was something that you can go off to college and study. And so I pivoted from wanting to do something with teaching and writing to entering this nutrition field. And that’s what led me to pursue my studies at UC Davis, where I came in as a first year nutrition science major. And what I tell my students as well as honestly, I did not know the level of general sciences that go into a nutrition degree. So I’m in chemistry, biology, calculus, and being like, Okay, I need to find the connection to nutrition. And I signed up for our introductory nutrition class here at UC Davis. And it was that class that really motivated me to continue on with the nutrition degree. And I began making the connections about why I was in Gen cam, why I was in calculus, and biology. And it all just seemed to come alive and bring the science to life. And that’s what really excited me about this field and why I’m still in it and why I hope to make nutrition accessible to all who are interested.
Shireen [4:01]: Thank you so much for sharing, you know, your work focuses on even guiding students, specifically students to make healthier nutrition and lifestyle choices. So I find that very interesting that these are your students, you’re teaching them but then you’re also very concerned about their own health. What is the challenge that students are facing today? And how does your approach address that challenge?
Dr. Fetter [4:24]: Students face so many obstacles in college, especially during the pandemic coming out of the pandemic, where I see my students, they’re in a ton of classes they’re doing internships are working multiple jobs, they’re caring for family members. They’re trying to carve out a social life and pursue additional areas of study after college. It’s a lot to juggle and also add commuting on top of that and a financial uncertainties. So there’s a lot of struggles that students are faced with these days. And what I I see for my students is I want my class not only to provide them with this area of study and interest, but my goal with my nutrition class is for students to be able to make at least one small health improvement that they can carry on for the rest of their lives in order to be healthier versions of themselves. And what I see students struggle with a lot to kind of summarize is mindset around things where a lot of students believe that they don’t have the time, they don’t have the financial resources, they don’t have the skills to live what they perceive to be a healthy lifestyle. But in fact, a lot of people are doing better in terms of health than they think because being healthy does not mean eating salads every day spending two hours in the gym. being healthy means the ability to do 510 minutes of movement a couple of times a day, throughout the day, you do not need to do a deliberate gym exercise routine. Being healthy doesn’t mean that you have to have salad every day. But trying to carve out different healthful carbohydrates and vegetables and fruit healthful fats, lean proteins that fit with your own tastes and preferences, and your dietary patterns, it’s going to look different every day where there’s going to be certain days where you are in the library studying for your finals, and you only have time to do to go meal of some sort, or maybe put together a quick sandwich. And that’s completely okay. Because then there’s other days where you’re carving out meals that are more plant focused. And having that perception that it’s it doesn’t have to be all or nothing. But it’s all about these tiny decisions that drive your overall healthy lifestyle.
Shireen [6:51]: You know, you’re so passionate clearly about supporting students, you also have this passion for providing nutrition research. And this is for broad general public consumption and really making it relatable to the audience and staying true to the science. Why is this approach important? And what is the potential impact of such an approach?
Dr. Fetter [7:11]: Absolutely. So I feel like overall, us in the science and research community, we sort of need a PR image overhaul where the general public tends to have this perception that scientists and researchers are unapproachable, where they’re all white males and white lab coats doing this kind of hidden research. And a lot of the message gets muddled along the way, when in fact, this is not the case where us in the scientific and research community, we’re human beings, just like the general public as well. And the main issue that I think comes into play is that a lot of consumers are not going to the original peer reviewed research paper. And reading that paper, understandably, because most of these papers are full of jargon, and they’re more written towards the scientific community. And in that process of translating that paper out, sometimes the message gets lost. And so we were seeing consumers, generally not going to the original research, not reading it, and also probably not having the background to critically evaluate the methods and the technique and the overall results from that paper and extrapolate it. But what we are seeing is a lot of people are getting their information from social media, especially when it comes to health information. And the people who are active on social media, particularly in this nutrition and healthy lifestyle space. Generally, a lot of them do not have the training and background in nutrition science or in research. And they’re communicating these messages out to the general public that may not hold true to the science or maybe missing pieces because sometimes having that clickbait video or headline can draw people in more so than the more realistic muddled message that typically comes into play with a lot of this work. So I think that we need to work to build trust with the consumer, where we need more people coming from the science and research and that want to engage with the general public that want to translate this message and create that community with the consumer.
Shireen [9:32]: You have a very novel approach to teaching nutrition. Can you discuss one, approach itself, and then also help us understand what gaps exist in current nutrition education that you would like to see filled?
Dr. Fetter [9:48]: With nutrition education it’s interesting because a lot of people may have a different perception about what nutrition education is where some people grew up thinking nutrition education is someone who comes in, gets a handout about calcium and tells you to drink milk. And that’s your nutrition Ed. But more so my research background is in nutrition education research. And I’ve been trained and taught that effective nutrition education programs don’t just tackle one area, but more so tackle different components of someone’s life. So not just raising nutrition knowledge, building basic skills, working at effective behavior change, helping with policy, the environment, the social circles, all these things need to work together in order to help someone be able to make effective change. And most importantly, effective nutrition education needs to be grounded in theory. So having that understanding of what theory are we working at in terms of trying to encourage behavior change can create a more effective program for people to engage in and hopefully lead to this overall input? I think a lot of times people jump ahead and say, okay, like, I want to have people eat more vegetables. But there’s a lot of things along the way that we have to address to get to that endpoint of consuming more vegetables, where, yes, we do need to work on building the knowledge. We also need to work on the food availability, we need to work on the cooking skills, we need to also tackle socio economic considerations when it comes to vegetables. And then what’s the sustainability? What’s the support here? So I tried to bring these tools into my own classroom here at UC Davis, where I’ve now been teaching that introductory nutrition class that literally changed my life when I was an undergrad, where I designed assignments that get students to create their own one small health improvement using that smart goal framework, Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Relevant and time bound, to give them an opportunity to be able to set this goal see it through over a few weeks, see what worked well see what didn’t work well, what can they do differently in the future. And a lot of times, students end up meeting their goal and building upon that for healthier habits in the future. So what I try to do with my classroom is I don’t want to just stand up there and tell you what enzyme is needed for fat digestion. Great if you leave my classroom, knowing that 15 years from now, especially if you use it in your career, but what I really want students to do is leave my classroom knowing how to make these effective health changes and bring that nutrition education to life because we all have to eat to survive. And I want to encourage people to make the healthiest decisions for themselves.
Shireen [12:52]: Which leads me to my next question, what is the next generation of dietitians? What are they learning that will really shape the way the profession evolves? Can you tell us a little bit about where the profession stands today, and then help us sort of see the future there?
Dr. Fetter [13:07]: Definitely, the great thing about a nutrition degree is you can work in so many different career sectors, where a lot of times a popular career path is becoming a registered dietitian, where you are trained and qualified to work individually with different clients or patients, work on medical nutrition therapy, do your own practice, work with sports teams are so many different things that you can do with becoming a registered dietician. And there’s also career options that are in nutrition, where you don’t have to be a registered dietician, like you could pursue graduate study, become a researcher, become a teacher, work for government, do your own business, health coaching so many different things. And specifically with the field of becoming a registered dietitian, there is a new master’s requirement as of this year with 2024 in order to be eligible to sit for the exam. And so I think what we’re going to see is a lot more people going into the field who are being trained in an additional area, whether it is a nutrition science, master’s degree, but also a master’s in public health Masters in Business Administration, you can do any type of master’s degree. So I think that would add more diversity to becoming a registered dietitian, because we’ll be able to pull in from these different areas within this field.
Shireen [14:34]: You know, when we were doing our research on you and trying to understand how best to align this episode, we came across your blog, where you have the section titled w t f Wednesday, and that really caught our attention. Seems like it’s really been created to clear up common nutrition dietary misconceptions, which takes me to my next question, which is, you know, this really aligns also by the way with our mission here at yum list. of providing trustworthy dietary information to the public, there is a lot of garbage that sits on social media. Can you tell us some of the misconceptions that drove you to write this section to your blog even?
Dr. Fetter [15:12]: I love that you brought that up my poor neglected blog, I started this blog back when I was in grad school really looking for an outlet to communicate out about nutrition, because one of the areas that interested me and nutrition was that I was able to tie in my interest in writing and communicating with the general public. And so that’s what led to the creation of PhDs which I do need to revive. And I love to keep up on social media keep up on the different articles and headlines that come out about nutrition. And continuously was seeing all these sort of ridiculous headlines that would come out anywhere from just that kind of got the message muddled, such as eating dessert for breakfast is healthy, or drinking a glass of wine is better for you than going to the gym, where if you look at the actual research, it doesn’t quite get that message across about what was really being discovered from that original research paper. And so I was trying to think of like sort of a catchy way to draw people’s attention. And that’s what led to the WTF Wednesday, which definitely needs to be revived. And this was kind of a fun experience, because then I got to see, okay, what sort of headline Am I seeing this week that I can summarize and talk about to the public. And that’s what led to that series, and especially on social media, I think I know, I haven’t done one of these in a long time. But a lot of times with that does come to mind. WTF, when I see some of these videos, I think one of the most shocking areas that I’ve been seeing more recently is this whole area of raw meat eating, I don’t know what my algorithm has decided to show me or what area of the internet I’ve somehow stumbled upon. But I am getting a lot of videos on raw meat eating. So we have evolved from raw egg swallowing, to eating entire raw chicken breasts, which come with a major food safety consideration. And I am currently unaware of any research that supports any benefit to consuming raw meat. And really, my number one thing that comes to mind is please general consumers, please do not do this for food safety considerations.
Shireen [17:47]: Goodness, as soon as he said that every part of me cringed because I can’t even think about that. You know, which takes me to my next question, which is, what are some of those common misconceptions Rami included, about nutrition that students or even general population often struggle to overcome? And then how do you effectively address and debunk these misconceptions in the way you teach and interact with your students?
Dr. Fetter [18:12]: Definitely, I think two big ones come to mind, the first being that there’s a certain way to be healthy, where people think that they need to do the certain routine every day. And if they deviate from that routine, then they messed up and forget it, what’s the point, but health is about creating a lifestyle that’s going to work well for you long term that not only includes these nutrient dense foods that are providing an ample amount of your essential nutrients and being mindful of energy balance, but that appeal to your tastes and your preferences and your cultural background, and the social connection that we get from sharing food with one another. And having this dining experience. These are all really important elements that we can’t just abandon because we think that being healthy as eating only lettuce every day, but making sure that you’re eating enough to feel your body and feel good. And so I think trying to encourage people to be more in the area of personalized nutrition, because what’s going to work well for a friend or family member may not be the best fit for yourself. And that’s okay. And there’s going to be certain times in your life where when things working really well and then something else happens and you have to change and pivot and find a new type of routine to incorporate into your lifestyle. And the second thing that I see often is that a lot of people perceive that size equals health, and that is absolutely false. There’s so many things that go into determining the health status of an individual and See, most of it is things that we can’t see, you cannot tell if someone is healthy simply by looking at them. And unfortunately, there’s a lot of societal pressure about ideal, the so called, quote unquote, ideal body image in Korea, especially in the United States, encouraging females to take up as little space as possible and for males to putting on as much muscle as possible. But there’s so many parameters of health and health comes in all shapes and sizes. And we have to do a lot of work in our society and culture and our messages and social media to spread that message.
Shireen [20:40]: I absolutely love that you mentioned that. In fact, you know, we even know when you were talking about even the social media piece earlier, you know, many health influencers health, I’m going to use air quotes on social media really promote sometimes even absent mindedly a restrictive style of eating, what are some tips that you could give to someone who might want to improve their nutrition without becoming the victim to some of these type of messaging?
Dr. Fetter [21:06]: Definitely, a lot of times, there are so many dietary patterns that are being spread, especially on social media that tend to be restrictive, and at least one of our energy macronutrients. And a lot of times it’s carbohydrates that are getting the ax when it comes to these dietary patterns. And when you’re restricting or removing a key area, that’s an essential nutrient for our bodies function. That’s a clue that this dietary pattern is likely not going to be sustainable, could lead to potential nutrient deficiency diseases and overall, probably is not the healthiest choice for us. So I always encourage people to be a cautious consumer when it comes to looking at these dietary plans that are on social media, especially if the person on social media or the influencer is trying to sell you something. A lot of times on social media, someone is trying to sell you a product or a plan, or just something. And I’m here to tell you save your money. A lot of times from what you’re seeing on social media where you do not need to purchase a special product or a dietary plan or a fitness routine, in order to be healthy, where there’s so many different ways to engage in a healthy lifestyle. So I always recommend when it comes to creating your own dietary pattern to do so individually and do so in a personalized approach. You want to make sure that you are meeting recommendations for healthful carbohydrates, lean proteins, healthful fats, can’t forget your minerals and vitamins. And I always recommend make water your default drink of choice.
Shireen [22:52]: Love that. With that Dr.Fetter, We are unfortunately to the end of the episode at this time. Will you tell our listeners how they can connect with you and learn more about your work?
Dr. Fetter [23:02]: Yes, please feel free to connect with me on social media @phdeats. It’s “Ph.D Eats” all in one word. And I’m happy to take any questions on social media I try to do some AMA’s is from time to time, so feel free to write me different questions.
Shireen [23:21]: Lovely, absolutely love that. And then we’ll also link up everything in terms of your social media at the bottom in the show notes section of this podcast. And with that, Dr. Fetter, thank you so much for coming on to our episode and enlightening us and all the work that you were doing and sculpting through this next generation of dieticians coming out. To our listeners, thank you so much for tuning in to another episode. At this time. We encourage you all to head over to our social media and answer this one quick question: What is one dietary habit in your life that you have changed after doing more research? So again, head over to Facebook to Instagram go to @Yumlish find this podcast post comment below to tell us again, what is one dietary habit in your life that you changed after doing more research? We will continue the conversation there, Dr. Fetter, thank you so much again.
Dr. Fetter [24:10] Thank you so much for having me.