In this episode, Heidi Skolnik discusses using food as a tool for athletes’ health and addressing performance over weight. She busts nutrition myths and shares the importance of protein and integrating physical activity into daily life is explored. Tune in for an insightful conversation!

Shireen [0:32]: In today’s episode, Heidi Skolnik discusses using food as a tool for athlete’s health and addressing performance over weight. She busts nutrition myths and shares the importance of protein and integrating physical activity into daily life tune in for an insightful conversation. Heidi is the co author of The New York Times bestselling “The Whole Body Reset”, considered a thought leader in her field, she has been part of the Women’s Sports Medicine Center at Hospital for Special Surgery for over 20 years, and has been the team nutritionist for the Giants, the Mets and the Knicks. Heidi, welcome to the podcast.

Heidi [1:17]: It is great to be here. Thanks for having me.

Shireen [1:19]: An absolute pleasure. So Heidi we have a lot to talk about today. I do want us to start with getting to know you a little bit better. Tell us a little bit more about your background in sports nutrition working with the likes of the Giants. What has that journey been like? And how did you even get into it to begin with?

Heidi [1:36]: Well, actually in college, it wasn’t like I knew that’s what I was going to do. In fact, when I started no sports nutrition class even existed yet, which is kind of mind boggling, because I’ve been doing this for 40 years. Yes. So I took a class on nutrition. And when I learned that you could prevent a disease, which was scurvy, you know, by eating like a lemon or an orange that just blew my mind that that’s how powerful food was. So that’s what sort of sparked my first interest in nutrition. But of course, I already had this passion as an athlete, as a dancer and as somebody who just loved movement. And so I just was able to combine my two passions, which was sports with nutrition, and it was just an emerging area at the time. And that idea that I could really focus on helping athletes to play better to maximize their performance. I just love that. And it was really more up my alley, then sort of disease management, which at the time was a big focus of really, if you’re in nutrition, where you would be hospital based. Now it’s much more common that people are, you know, sports, nutrition is booming. And there are plenty of dietitians, nutritionists are in private practice, but not so much them. So for me prevention is where it’s at, you know, and then of course, there’s intervention and management. But my focus is really more on prevention and performance.

Shireen [2:53]: In you know, we as we our team was researching a little bit more about you and just getting to know your background a little bit, we came across something on your website that really kind of stood out to us that I want to talk about where your website stays that you believe that M&Ms can fit into a healthy eating style along with red peppers, red meat, broccoli, and even fresh fruit. What is your specific approach to nutrition and your perspective on intuitive eating?

Heidi [3:19]: Well, I think that is, absolutely it’s being realistic. And the idea that, you know, positive nutrition and gentle nutrition, which really means that in general, we can focus on what we want to add to our diet to improve our health and our well being, as opposed to focusing on the negative and restriction which really sets us up for failure, and is just unrealistic. We want to be able to have food that is pleasurable, you know, it can be celebratory, it can be delicious, and nutritious, you know, nourishing, and it can help us with disease management prevention. But, you know, we really need to recognize all and sometimes it’s emotional, you know, it can be comforting, you know, so it’s only when we overuse it as a comforting thing when it’s a maladaptive coping mechanism. But, you know, food tastes good. We want it to. And so I just think that, you know, that approach is a much more healthy approach to behavior and well being. You know, one of the things I often talk about is this idea that I think it’s,  people are kind of shocked when you’re coming as the health professional saying that foods are not healthy or unhealthy. You know, food is more or less nutritious. Like, of course, there’s a difference in nutrition. But if you’re basically eating a nutritious diet, you know, your core diet, and then you eat a food that has less nutrition, so I eat a cookie. Well, I’ve now not become unhealthy just because I ate a cookie. And so I think you know, health is much more than just nutrition as well. We really want to look at all these different verticals, how we move and our relationships or social connections like There’s a lot of ways we nourish ourselves. And food is one of them. And so it’s just, you know, my approach is that of sort of positive nutrition. 

Shireen [5:10]: How does that approach and just more broadly speaking, you know, you’ve worked quite a bit with athletes, and athletes often have unique nutritional needs. How can food really be used as a tool to better the overall health and performance of athletes and even prevent chronic conditions? 

Heidi [5:28]: Well, you know, the truth about athletes is we want to have, of course, we care about their health and their well being. But they do have very specific performance goals that is beyond that of any of us who are going through our everyday lives. And so it can be very strategic in ways that we get very granular in ways that we don’t need to be as people who are living our lives and trying to stay healthy, and all of that, but we don’t need to be quite that strategic. And sometimes even some of the things they do aren’t so healthy, but they’re doing it for their sport at a certain time in their life. And we care about how old they are and what stage and for how long they’re going to do that, that we wouldn’t ask other people to do. Like, if you are in a weight sport, like wrestling, right, or you’re doing things that we wouldn’t want you to weight cycle like that. And well, you know, we can go into lots of examples. But just the point is that athletes do need to do things that most of us don’t need to do, in order to be good at what their required sport is, having said that, we do still care about trying to make sure that they have the nutrients they need for tissue repair, and recovery, and bone health and energy and Hormonal Health and muscle building, and, but they just have all these other added layers of specific timing and amounts, and all to help them hydration, you know, and then the challenges of eating on the road and which not some of us can have we can use that model. But you know, their game time, their competition and their training really require nonstop, you know, to have that kind of focus. 

Shireen [7:09]: That’s interesting, you know, with athletes, especially those who are perhaps trying to lose weight, they just cannot afford to fall into a heavier restrictive model than even that mindset, I imagined, as this may impact their performance in the game itself. What are some of the steps a person can take to lose weight without becoming so restrictive or having that become like the center focus of any kind of diet that they’re following?

Heidi [7:34]: Well, of course, those are very different things like for athletes who are an aesthetic sports, or athletes that actually do have to weight cut, if you’re a jockey, let’s say, right, like, that’s a very real requirement. It’s not necessarily pathologic, in terms of when we think of like, eating sort of disordered eating or patterns like that. It’s very goal driven, which isn’t to say that many of them don’t even develop other issues around eating because of it. But mostly, we don’t really focus on weight, right, we’re focusing on performance, we’re focusing on function. And that’s really what I bring to really anybody I work with, I’m not somebody who does a lot of weight loss, that’s not my thing, really, as it is to, you know, if you are eating appropriately for your body, and your again, that positive nutrition, like if your goals are to increase your fiber or have more fruits, or more vegetables, or adequate protein, whatever, and you’re doing those things, and then you’re moving, right, you’re not sedentary, you’re not over exercising, then where your weight is, is where your weight is, we all have different bodies, we have different body types, we have different genetics. And so it’s really, health isn’t really determined by your size, by your weight, it’s really determined by your fitness, more so and you know, the types of foods you eat your general patterns will matter over time. So I think that focusing on weight can actually take us further away from our goals, as opposed to really focusing on again, what we can do to look at that process, the outcome we can control. But if we’re including those foods that really take us closer toward what is, you know, what we say we need in terms of good nutrition, and focus on movement. And those other verticals, we talked about, you know, then coming to sort of, you know, we’re in such a weight centric society, right. But that just isn’t really true. You can live in a larger body and be very healthy and you can live in a smaller body and be very unhealthy. So our size does not determine our health.

Shireen [9:39]: Absolutely. And you know, when we look at that, and I like that you’re taking the focus away, especially when we’re talking about sports, nutrition, it’s not so much about the weight is about the performance, right? It’s about health, regardless of what size it is. And as you sort of look at that and you look at you know how to improve performance. How would you even say, do you mean measure that improvement. How do you quantify that?

Heidi [10:03]: Well, I think, again, different sports, it’s different ways. But you know, we’re looking at power, we’re looking at strength, we’re looking at speed, we’re looking at endurance, we’re are, you know, looking at recovery measures, so, and for those of us who aren’t looking quite at that, we can still as a person to look at our endurance and our strength and our power, now, we can look at our sleep, we can look at our mood, we can look at our hormonal balance. And then there are like, look at cholesterol, look at blood pressure, all of the look of our blood sugar management, you know, all of those different parameters that we care about health is not determined by yours, I mean size, can matter for orthopedic issues, when strength training can help with that too. But sometimes size it’s not like, weight never matters, it’s just that it doesn’t only matter, there are a lot of other ways. And I think focusing on function is way healthier. So if you want to improve your health, you know, look at your sleep hygiene, you know, look at your movement patterns over a week or over, you know, within a day, and again, look at the foods that you’re eating, and then look at your metabolic health and what you can do to change that. And your metabolic health can be helped in lots of other ways than just weight loss.

Shireen [11:20]: Gotcha. You know, at Yumlish, Heidi, we’re really focused on increasing nutrition literacy and understanding for the general population, which includes sifting through dietary myths and misconceptions. And I’m sure you’ve come across quite a few of those online. What is one nutrition misconception that you’ve come back to, throughout your experience working with athletes? 

Heidi [11:43]: Oh, there’s just so many. So I know you want me to mention one or I mean, you know, there’s the whole detox thing, you know, but we have a liver and we have a kidney. And we have, you know, so you know, that I think is- can take people so further away from learning how to eat and trust their body and all of that. Actually, the carbohydrate phobia, especially for athletes, can be really, really damaging. So that’s one that’s an ongoing thing and understanding that, first of all carbohydrates go across food groups. So I think what people think of as carbohydrate isn’t, they get confused, and we know that, you know, as being nutritional professionals, but I think that idea that not all carbohydrates are actually the same. And that fruit is carbohydrate. And vegetables are carbohydrates and beans are carbohydrates, not just pretzels, and chips, and ice cream and cookies. And so, yes, of course, less of that. But not it’s not an all or none. And then you know, how we, understanding how much we need. So it is true. We’re not going all eat like we’re athletes. But not all athletes eat the same, like marathoners don’t need the same as dancers and don’t need the same football players don’t need the same as hockey players. Like there’s different amounts based on what you’re doing. So how much we need is determined by how active we are in other factors. But it’s not an all or none. And I think that all or none thinking, again, takes us further away from our goals for health and performance.

Shireen [13:11]: I absolutely love that. You know, Heidi, if I’m listening to this podcast right now, in a second, well, I’m not an athlete, how does some of these things apply to me? Especially if I’m trying to work toward what you mentioned performance just be at a healthy lifestyle? Just overall energy, strength? Yeah. So what, what are some things that can transfer over from the work done with athletes to the general population that is just trying their best to stay active and, and sort of adopt, sort of this general healthy lifestyle?

Heidi [13:43]: Yeah, I think one of the biggest things is the idea of caloric distribution, or how we distribute our calories throughout the day. And I think, you know, athletes can’t wait till the end of the day, they can’t get through their day, well, ideally, or optimally. And I think that’s really true for all of us, it’s just how much we’re eating might be different. So just this idea of like, really, if you think of whatever number of calories you need, and it’s just conceptual, you know, you’re really, you’re just gonna divide that into like, three buckets. And so you’re having a third, you know, in the morning and a third in the middle of the day and a third at night. So you’re not waiting and sort of dieting during the day. And then over eating all night, because you’re just so hungry. And so redistributing so that you really allow yourself to sort of being to prepare for the day ahead, to stay on it, you know, to will make a you know, balanced meals and caloric distribution can make a huge difference in our appetites, and our hunger management, and our cholesterol and our blood pressure and muscle maintenance and all those hormonal like, all of those things. So I think that’s one of the most applicable kind of lessons for all of us.

Shireen [14:52]: That’s so helpful. Can you explain to us the importance of protein in maintaining a healthy lifestyle for both athletes as well as for the general population,

Heidi [15:03]: well, you know, that fact is what the New York Times bestseller book which I co wrote with Steve Prine, and with AARP, and it’s really about you know, when starting between ages 30 and 40, we begin to lose muscle about 1% per year, which you don’t really notice between maybe 40 and 50. But by the time you’re 60, now, you’ve lost, you know, a significant amount. And that continues on, it’s not our metabolism, that lowers our body’s ability to still metabolize remains until age 60. And then it begins to draw. But as we lose muscle, then the active what’s active isn’t there anymore. So we want to maintain that muscle. The other thing that happens is we come what’s called anabolic resistance, which sounds big and like what, but really, that just means we are resistant to putting on muscle. As we age, we need more, when you’re young, you drink a glass of milk, that all goes to building muscle, you know, you don’t really need to do much. But as we get older, our body goes: glass of milk, eight grams of protein, I need more than that to make things happen. So we really need to be having protein three times a day or more, we need to hit like it’s that muscle building button needs more to make it happen. So we need 25 to 30 grams, it’s a little if you’re really smaller, a little less, really bigger, a little more, we need about 25 grams for 130 grams of protein for me at each meal. And Breakfast is the meal that most people don’t have that because even if they’re eating something like oatmeal, which is certainly nutritious, but there’s no protein in them, very little. Or maybe somebody grabs an egg, right, but that’s only seven grams, like it’s not enough. So maintaining muscle is really crucial, because a lot of things that we think of as inevitable, as we age, has really to do with losing muscle, not being active. You know, diabetes, type two diabetes, having more muscle is a clearinghouse for excess carbohydrate. And it helps with your insulin movement muscle helps with your insulin sensitivity, you know, blood pressure, cholesterol, bone, health, cognitive function, all of these things, that muscle is really the cornerstone. And so doing that plus resistance training, you know, everyone thinks that cardio cardio is important, we do want both, but resistance training really helps us maintain that muscle. So the protein plus the strength training combined is like more, it’s that as we get older,

Shireen [17:38]: That is so fascinating. And so what you’re seeing is over time, there’s an increased need for protein, right, and you got to up that protein amount in your diet. And you’re talking about and this is not protein powders, or extra like this is not that you’re saying within your foods, you can incorporate some of those things like eating, you know, more eggs you mentioned along with that oatmeal, and we’ll talk a little bit more about some of those examples. But that is really important. Because as you’re aging and you’re losing that muscle, you want to be able to give your body the foods it needs to be able to build that. 

Heidi [18:12]: And you know I used eggs, it could be whether it’s making yourself a tofu scramble, or an egg omelet, or Greek yogurt, or lox, I’m in New York, you know, like, there’s lots of choices. It’s not about you can use a protein powder, though, if that’s helpful for you and make a smoothie. So all of that, but Right. It’s not a high protein diet. It’s an adequate protein diet. But it’s how, again, going back to that distribution, it’s how you’re distributing it. Because most people will have let’s say, like 90 grams at dinner, there’s a big, you know, they’re like saving up so I can eat this big dinner. And it’s really just more adequate amounts each time a day as opposed to big bolus all at night.

Shireen [18:47]: Absolutely love that. So you’re saying not only increase that amount, but actually staggered throughout the day as well. Right. Okay. All right. And can you and while we’re talking about that, can you give us some examples of some of those things? You mentioned eggs? Can you give us examples of like three meals with an adequate amount of protein? What does that look like?

Heidi [19:05]: Yeah, I mean, again, it could be a cup of yogurt, not a small yogurt, but a cup of Greek yogurt. I mean, you know, we’re just focusing on protein, of course, even from us and you still need your fruits and vegetables. So you know, you might have berries on that without some nuts on that, whatever you might have. It’s wasted dose with some avocado, it depends on how much you need. You know, lunch could be anything from having a salad, if that’s like what you want, but you have to have chicken on it. Or if you’re going to use beans, it can’t be a half a cup of beans, it’s not enough, maybe you put a half a cup of beans, and an ounce of cheese and some nuts on it like you stack it if that’s your choice to go without having more meat based or you know, you might have that, you know tuna on it, or whatever, you know what so you can mix and match. And then dinner can be your piece of chicken with your sweet potato and your broccoli, but it’s four ounces, it’s having four to five ounces, which gets you to that 30 You know 25 To 30 grams as opposed to a little less it’s a little more More, but we’re not talking about huge amounts. So when you say it, it’s not stunning, because it’s not a far out plan. It’s using any protein sources you like. So again, whether you want a tofu scramble and you want, you know, a chili for, you know, being based chili for lunch, it doesn’t really matter. It’s just getting it in, it’s not having just the oatmeal or the donut, which, you know, a lot of people in the morning will, what do they eat for breakfast, it might be a doughnut, or a pastry, or a slice of toast with jam. But there’s no protein or lunch, they might grab a salad thinking they’re being healthy, but there’s no protein in it. So having a vegetable based salad with no protein is not a meal. It’s just having vegetables, which certainly are nutritious, but it’s not balanced. You still need some starch, whether it’s from beans, or whether you know, it’s just a matter of those patterns over time. At any one day doesn’t matter. But this is like slow and steady over the course of her life. And then you wake up and you go, Wait, what happened? 

Shireen [21:00]: Wow, how do you, you know, you mentioned a little bit ago, even the physical activity specifically, you mentioned that the strength piece of it. How do you incorporate recommendations of physical activity, like strength training, alongside nutrition advice against specially for individuals with varying levels of physical activity in their day to day life? What does that look like?

Heidi [21:18]: Well, the good news is that just moving improves your fitness tremendously, or your risk factors actually tremendously. So going from nothing to something, you get the most benefit. And then once you’re at a certain level, all of these other you know, then yeah, there’s bumps in fitness, but they’re not as great as going from, from nothing to something. So I think that’s really important, you don’t have to be a huge fitness enthusiast, in order to get the benefit of moving, you know, it can be starting with those things we always hear like taking the stairs instead of the elevator and taking, you know, getting off the bus, one stop earlier. And so it’s allowing you to walk both to and from work, you know, allowing a little time to fit it sort of into your day. Or you can be more strategic and certainly go to a fitness facility, but even on, you know, like during the pandemic, it certainly opened up people working out in their homes getting on to YouTube, there’s tons of different options, you just put in mobility, or put in strength training, or put in ab work or whatever. And there’s lots that you can do in your home. If you like to watch TV, do while you’re watching TV or doing it during commercial breaks. You know, the American College of Sports Medicine recommends a minimum of 150 hours per week of cardiovascular. That’s like 30 minutes a day. And yeah, it’s great if you could do continuous but even if it’s 10 minutes before work, 10 minutes at lunchtime, 10 minutes after, there’s ways you could fit it in strength training two or three times a week, balanced and stretching as you get older balance becomes more important. So it depends on what your goals are. It depends what you need. But there’s also a lot of community centers will offer some sort of options that are usually more accessible and affordable. And it’s kind of figuring out kind of doing a time audit in your week to figure out where can you fit it in. And, you know, everyone says to do something you enjoy. I don’t know, I understand that from a you know, you’re more motivated, if you love to dance that you do it or you get a buddy to do it with. I definitely think that. But I also think as adults, like we don’t always love what we go because we want that paycheck. And we know we have to and sometimes you know moving your body is sort of like you know, the paycheck is staying healthy and being able to climb the stairs and play with your grandchildren and, you know, do what you want to do. So you don’t have to go for the most you can start with what feels like workable for you. But moving is really crucial for everyone exercises, medicine is recognizing like 40 different conditions that we have will benefit from movement. So you might need to modify, but it’s going to help you have low back pain movement is going to help you not moving is worse for you.

Shireen [24:10]: Absolutely love that. It’s so what you’re saying is it doesn’t have to be where you are today. And you know, it should try to achieve athlete level. What you’re saying is just start with something. Aim for that 150 minutes a week, like you were saying, just start there,  incorporate into your day to day 30 minutes a day while you’re, you know other habits like watching TV during those times as well. But start small, set those goals and aim to achieve them. On that note, Heidi, this has been such an interesting conversation. Tell us more about how can our listeners just connect with you and learn more about your work? 

Heidi [24:41]: Well, my website is heidiskolnik.com. The book which you can see in the background is actually available anywhere you can buy books, I think it’s now in Target. It’s at Barnes and Noble, it’s on Amazon. It just came out in paperback. And I think it is a really easy to read, you know, my co-author is a great writer. And so it’s just easy to read and very flexible in terms of meeting you with the foods you like.

Shireen [25:08]: Love it. And I leave with that. Thank you so very much for your time, we’re actually going to link up the book in the show notes so folks can click on it. To our listeners. Thank you so much for joining us on another episode of the Yumlish podcast, head over to our social media. Find this podcast post comment below to tell us how do you incorporate physical activity into your daily routine? Now Heidi’s given you some great tips. So head over to your social media again, go to facebook instagram at young lunch. We will see you there find this podcast post continue the conversation by answering how do you incorporate physical activity into your daily routine. We’ll continue the conversation there with that, Heidi, thank you so much.

Heidi [25:49]: Thank you so much. Really a pleasure.

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