"You can absolutely still enjoy these foods, just within reasonable limits.”
In today’s episode, registered dietitian, Toby Amidor helps us define junk food, address marketing’s role in increased consumption of such food, and explains the adverse effects the junk foods can have on weight and chronic diseases. Toby provides accessible alternatives and tips for avoiding/reducing junk food, promoting mindful eating and a supportive environment. Stay till the end as we have a giveaway in tis episode.
Toby is an award winning registered dietitian and a Wall Street Journal bestselling cookbook author and has 9 published cookbooks. Her upcoming cookbook Up Your Veggies: Flexitarian Recipes for the Whole Family is due out October 2023. She is also the nutrition expert for FoodNetwork.com and contributor to many media outlets.
Shireen: In today’s episode we’re in conversation with registered dietician Toby Amidor, who helps us define junk food, addresses marketing’s role in increased consumption of junk food, and explains the adverse effects that junk foods can have on weight and chronic diseases. Toby provides accessible alternatives and tips for avoiding and reducing junk food consumption promoting mindful eating and a supportive environment. Stay till the end as we have a giveaway in this episode.
Toby Amador is an award winning registered dietitian and a Wall Street Journal bestselling cookbook author, and has nine published cookbooks. Her upcoming cookbook “Up Your Veggies: Flexitarian Recipes for the Whole Family” is due out October 2023. She is also the nutrition expert for foodnetwork.com and contributor to many media outlets. Welcome, Toby.
Toby: Thank you so much for having me.
Shireen: It’s such a delight to have you on. So Toby diving in first, please share with us what inspired you to pursue a career as a registered dietitian and a nutrition consultant.
Toby: It’s funny because my mom sat me down in college and I was like, what do you want to do? I’m like, what do you mean? So I took a couple of classes at the State University of New York and Binghamton, and I like they only had two classes. So I took biology of nutrition and sociology of nutrition, and I just loved it. Though I’ve never seen another sociology class of nutrition. That was my absolute favorite, because it talked about like the history of how people you could tell famine by their bones and, and periods of it was a fascinating piece of what people eat. It was fascinating, but I loved it so much that I then applied to do my masters at NYU.
So I got my masters. My mom and I actually were there at the same time when we graduated together and then I kind of my career kind of fell in line step by step from teaching them to doing a lot of media to writing cookbooks and to doing a lot of spokesperson work.
Shireen: And that’s interesting and you know, for a podcast episode here today, we’re going to actually dive a little deeper into junk food. I would love to get your take on just first personally if you can talk a little bit about junk food and why has that been such a, when we say junk food obviously in the word itself we’re assuming quite a bit. Can you give us first a definition of junk food is there a definition that is not like?
Toby: To me a junk food is, and there is room for it, is just a food that doesn’t provide a lot of nutrition into your diet. To me that is junk food and you know, whether it’s sweet whether it’s savory, there are many different types of junk food. You have like popcorn and chocolates and you know, just if you eat too much of these foods, they tend to just rack up the calories quickly wrap up the saturated fat quickly, which we know is linked to heart disease and added sugar which we are limited, you know, the recommendation is no more than 10% of total calories within the diet just about on a 2000 calorie diet 200 calories which isn’t that much.
And so it can lead to obesity and other sort of you know, chronic diseases that we’re worried about and that we see so much in our society so you know, to me that is more of a junk food and if you look at the dietary guidelines, there is room for it. It is not saying that you should have zero you know, because that black and white thought process isn’t quite, like even from a psychological and a mental health standpoint, it’s when you regulate yourself so much. It just does something like puts that aura of negativity, you can absolutely still enjoy these foods just within reasonable limits.
You don’t need the whole carton of Oreos, believe me I love Oreos, you just want to take a few cookies out and then have it together with let’s say a glass of milk for the 13 nutrients that are found in a glass of milk so you’re pairing it with something a little bit more healthful there for a dessert or special treat.
Shireen: Help us understand, Toby, why this is such a painful thing for a lot of Americans today. What is so appealing about junk food? Like what is it that says you know something?
Toby: I have a sweet tooth like there’s no tomorrow. A lot of it is mental health driven. Personally I do have anxiety and I know when my mood, and I think a lot of people can relate. Think about it, when you are at a birthday party and you’re happy where do you want to have some cake when you are upset some people don’t eat but some people just go for that type of ice cream or the donuts or something. And so the way, and anxiety to somebody’s anxious which is like me I like to I’m like okay, I need to I’m hungry all the time, like my body feels hungry but it’s not my body it’s it’s a side effect of the anxiety You know, depression can also have that effect.
So your moods certainly regulate how you feel and sometimes it’s you know, you’re trying so hard to like but I need more snacks. So even learning how to pick a little bit better snack that is, you know, a little bit more nutritious or a little bit fewer calories or, you know, sometimes I’m like just chew on a piece of, like the mouth wants something, chew on a piece of gum. So there are little tactics that you can do to help minimize it or if it is mental health, go see a mental health specialist take care of the original problem. And then you know, if it’s something with emotions, which we all a lot of us have, you know, pre-pandemic, post-pandemic because of the pandemic so, you know, take care of that underlying issue and then that can help resolve with the eating as well.
Shireen: And I like that you, you know, you talked about the mental health component. Help us understand, you know, just really share with us when you notice, sort of junk food become more prevalent in a person’s life.
Toby: So when somebody can’t, let’s say, they get a pint of ice cream or even a gallon and they can’t stop and they’re eating the whole thing until their stomach hurts. You don’t need that many calories from that when you can’t stop. Sometimes I’m like, OK, don’t buy the ice cream, go to the store. At least you have to overcome that barrier of either walking to the store, taking a subway to the store, you know, like taking a bus, taking a car, and then you really know you want it. So, you know, sometimes creating for yourself some barriers like that certainly help.
Shireen: Mm-hmm. And that sort of helps us, you know, sort of creates that barrier to say, okay, there’s one more step that I need to do to get there. It’s not instant gratification and, like, instantly have access to it.
Toby: Right. And then another tip I like to say is, let’s say it’s the potato chips that I got you right don’t take the whole bag with you to the sofa because you’re endlessly eating, you don’t realize you’re just putting in your mouth not even realizing it not listening to your body satiety signals, and so I suggest like portioning out whatever whatever’s good for you if you want the one ounce serving if you want the two ounce, whatever, and then portioning it out because something like by the way popcorn is a whole grain and if you look at something like a smart pop or one of those you know air pops you can have a couple cups for very few unpopped popcorn like just in the air poppers 30 calories a cup. If you wanted to you can have five cups for under 50 calories put a little salt or some seasoning on it you’re fine and that’s just and it’s a whole brain so it’s really a matter of you know balancing and taking your portion and then sitting down and saying okay I’m enough I’ll finish it. Some people like to brush their teeth with that, you know, flavor of the toothpaste. Some people like a hot cup of tea afterwards. You need to see what works for you.
Shireen: You know, how has, and when we talk about junk food, I think immediately we think about like that, that label and how delicious the product looks on the label and how even just looking at the label can like, you know, even jog, like when you were talking about Oreos, like immediately you think about like the container and how it looks on the container, the packaging itself. Can you speak a little bit about how some marketing tactics perhaps that have like pretty much over the years impacted how junk food really has become so prevalent in the American household?
Toby: I mean, it has. If you look, there’s a lot of foods there that just kind of push themselves into like your home when it, you know, like you must have it, you’re cool to have it. I mean, carrots tried very hard to make them look cool through some commercialization. I was really proud of those. Like it was like the baby carrots. And you’re seeing some of the more healthier options, trying to do that sort of marketing, but it’s almost like then you, then you’re like nostalgia to think of like stuff that maybe you grew up with that like you need to have because it just makes you feel good inside. And that’s not, you know, necessarily emotionally driven, like I’m anxious on this and that, but like it just makes me feel good, like home.
So you know, they play, they definitely play on your buttons. I mean, there is regulation around commercialization with children, which a lot of companies do follow, but there are some, and it’s, it is to me lesser than it used to be, but you see influencers still pushing certain foods out there. My son, who’s 21, asked me about, it was some, of some like protein or energy drink or whatnot that somebody with millions of followers had, and he was so adamant about, and he’s like, is this healthy? The guy had so many followers.
And so I debunked it right away and actually had one of my fellow RD friends, that’s what she does on social, and she did me a favor and she’s like debunked it in his language for 10c and he’s like oh thank you that was really good now I understand why I’m not going to take it, but you see these things and my son’s a smart boy and he’s just a young man and he you know people are duped by what people you know influencers say what commercialization says today I think it’s even more influencers than the commercials that do it.
Shireen: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You mentioned something about children as well. To what extent, you said it’s obviously gotten a lot better, but to what extent do you think it is really a problem that junk food marketing is really aimed at children still?
Toby: It’s, I mean, it’s twofold too. It is, it’s certainly marketed, again, it’s a lot, the social media certainly has a lot of it, the parents, the buzz, because if you look at younger generations, they’re not watching traditional television as much as we once did, like when I was a girl, maybe 30, 40 years ago. So they’re using additional means in order to, you know, for commercialization. Like I said, again, there are some guidelines and laws surrounding certain types, like with cereal companies and with certain types of commercialization to younger kids.
But it also has to do with educating the parents and, you know, you wanna make those healthy habits from a young age so the child develops these habits as they get older. You also don’t want a kid running into their friend’s house and being like, ah, junk food, yes, my mom’s drinks. You need to show a balance to the child how it can certainly fit. And that’s, I mean, one of my kids, I have three kids, one of my kids were growing up, I have two girls who are teenagers, they like their junk food, but they’re like, mom, you can’t, like if I buy something extra in the house mom stop buying the junk food you’re gonna eat it like we don’t want it.
So it’s very interesting to see the dynamic after raising them as a dietitian and they’re fully aware of healthy eating but also they do have their and like we’ll bake cookies together our favorite is like this chocolate chip cookie recipe that food network website is one of my favorites. We’ll do it together but you know they don’t want to make one every night, and they’re like, please make a healthy dinner, don’t make anything fried. They’re the ones guiding everything, and we actually cook together when we’re all home together.
Shireen: Nice, nice, love that. You know, what is in junk food that makes it so bad for us? Or let me put it this way, what is not in junk food that really makes it so bad for us?
Toby: So, right, before I said what non-nutrient, or we call it empty calorie foods. Right. So for example, a donut has high saturated fat, linked to heart disease, high calories, high sugar. But when I was giving a talk in a middle school, they asked me what is the difference between an orange with the added, with the natural sugar, as opposed to a donut with the added sugar. And that orange, yes, it’s natural, but it also was coming with an array of nutrients, including vitamin C, that’s a risperidone, which is a phytonutrient found in oranges and orange juice. You get fiber, especially if you’re gonna eat the pith, a little bit of the outside. So, and it has other nutrients, but it’s coming with a slew of good-for-you nutrients, and nature is adding that flavor of sugar to help as a means for consumption for our palates. So it’s naturally, it was done that way.
That’s okay, but if you’re taking the donut, there’s nothing beneficial in there. Yeah, it might have enriched flour, so you’re getting something, but overall the nutritional content, if you look at a lot of these boxes, they just have calories, saturated fat, and added sugars and a lot of empty carbs without even fiber in it. So it’s not the better choice on your plate for a regular basis. I like to say that because if you want one once in a while, go for it.
Shireen: Mm-hmm. And so what you’re saying is when we’re saying empty calories, what we’re really saying is getting your calories but not getting any nutrient value alongside. That’s where we want to focus, is that nutrient value.
Toby: The good for you nutrients because saturated fat is a nutrient. Someone who’s up now, Nourish, should be getting that. But you know, or you know, they do want some, you know, carbs in the form of sugar, and some men are not necessarily added. But yeah, you want good for you nutrients that we don’t overconsume, because those are the ones that are pinpointed as being overconsumed by society as a whole.
Shireen: Now speaking of overconsumption, maybe this is a great follow-up question, then are there foods that wouldn’t normally be considered junk food, but then have been labeled as that just because of like over processing and then over consumption of that food as well.
Toby: So just the term over overly processed has I think lost all meaning if you actually look at the scientific way that they categorize it because tofu is one of the most processed foods. However, I commonly recommend tofu and soy is absolutely healthy. There’s many myths that I’ve debunked over my time in the media. But you have to look again at what this food is providing to you. The tofu provides a wonderful way for plant-based protein. If it’s made with calcium, you get your calcium. It has some made with calcium carbonate. You get some calcium in there. You get a variety of nutrients in there.
And so sometimes these terms are thrown out in society and we don’t really understand if you look at the data or if you look at the categorization and their numerous categorizations and the way things fall. Like cereal is also considered very processed. However, it has a tremendous shelf life, right? For someone who can’t afford things, cereal is a wonderful thing that could be stored in your pantry. Research shows that with cereal what do you have it most people have it with cow’s milk with which has 13 essential nutrients and fruit that’s three food groups, specifically a banana, so you have potassium in there too.
So you need to look at the whole picture and not just you know people throw out these terms overly processed or, you know,, listen then apple and slices you know they give them out and or you can buy them on the store that’s processed too because you’re cutting it you know so you have to, I’ve met someone that it’s funny when I go to parties I don’t like to tell anyone I’m a dietician because then they’re like I don’t need any processed food so I’m like okay what did you have for breakfast and they start telling me you know I had a whole grain bread I’m like well the whole wheat plant and then you know the wheat plant didn’t make the bread, like you didn’t pick the bread, you had to process that. Or I had some bacon, you know, I didn’t, you know, you didn’t, the cow didn’t make the bacon like that, you had to process the cows, or the pigs, sorry.
So it’s like, whatever you eat, it doesn’t matter, it has to, the form usually is changed or food safety aspects are put in there, like pasteurization milk, for example, you know, for a reason. So yeah, so there are overly processed that are certainly healthy and there are, you know, processed that are, you know, maybe less processed, that are not so healthy, that don’t give you so many nutrients in there.
Shireen: So our best bet is to really understand what over processing of that specific food item is and what nutritional benefits that food item still has even after the quote over processing.
Toby: Right and then remember that we also have the enriching and the fortification process for a reason. Okay so vitamin D for example is added to milk because the vitamin D and calcium work together for strong great bones. And then you also have with the enrichment of all-purpose flour like a white bread, you know. The dietary guideline says at least 50% should be whole grain. You still can have some enriched product that’s okay and we have it for a reason. Foliate is, or folic acid, is there specifically since we have the neural tube disorder and spina bifida found in pregnancy and you know can result in some fetus with spine and brain malfunction and then they either die upon survival or they’re wheelchair bound. And it’s very sad. So we’re able to fix a lot of this problem with this fortification and enrichment process.
The 1924 iodination of salts, when they put iodine in the salts, we were walking around with goiters, right? If you remember that Seinfeld episode, the lady with the goiter on there, I always mention some people, if they’re old enough, they remember. But we’ve eliminated most of that problem with that fortification process. We are seeing some iodine issues come up now because it’s found in milk and it’s also found in seafood, so people who don’t take those or the Himalayan or like Nouveau salts don’t aren’t iodinized and processed foods quote-unquote they don’t use iodinized salt usually because it’s more expensive. Yeah, so we are seeing a little bit of that coming and trickling in, pregnancy population we’re seeing that as well if they’re not eating seafood, shellfish, or milk or dairy products, or using iodized salt.
Shireen: Got it. Okay, that’s how you’re seeing it. Now, help us understand, coming back to the junk food piece for a second, what are the possible long-term effects of consuming junk food, and what can it lead to? Help us understand that. I think we understand it, but can you truly help us understand, like, where does it start with the lack of those nutrients and then taking us to what that can lead to.
Toby: Okay so you’re having an extra 300 calories let’s say from a donut okay. One time, three times, five times it’s not really gonna do much for you if you have that in a month let’s say. However if this becomes habitual and you have two or three a day or one or two every few days, you start to accumulate more calories than your body needs. And as you age, you actually need fewer calories, couple hundred fewer calories as you get older. So if you can continue to have that higher calorie limit, especially from these foods who are displacing maybe some of the more nutrient dense foods maybe some of the more nutrient dense foods that your body needs, then you can gain weight over time. It’s very likely to gain weight, especially with that type of diet when you’re eating, let’s say you need 2000 calories just for the general average, and you’re eating 3000 calories over time. Yes, you will gain weight.
With that weight gain comes an increased risk for cardiovascular disease. You might see your blood pressure go up, you might see, and that has to do with the increased weight and just, you know, genetic disposition, sedentary lifestyles if somebody smokes. So there are many factors that play a role. So it’s not so black and white. but food we know definitely plays a role to help minimize the risk of many of these, these chronic diseases.
Same thing with cancer. They’re linked to, you know, obesity and having more calories are certainly linked to, certain forms of cancer. And then obesity, we know also puts you at risk for a slew of other issues, just being heavy, could put your bones at risk. You know, arthritis becomes an issue. Sleep apnea becomes an issue. Type two, diabetes is a potential risk over there, especially with a family history is very, very strong. And so you’re just, these problems will come on much quicker, 10, 15 years sooner, if not more.
And you can postpone them if not push them as far back as possible to your life span. If you watch your diet a little bit more closely that, like I said, it doesn’t mean don’t ever have a doughnut. It’s just saying you should be having that plate, that well balanced plate and then once, you know, fit it into your diet as needed. So if you have that doughnut, I’m just trying to use the same example with the 350 calories, then maybe take out that bread that you were gonna have on the side with the pasta that day. You know, you got to remove something if you’re gonna put something in. So, you know, you always have to look at it from that perspective
Shireen: And I’d like that, you know, it’s, it’s not all or none. Right. It can be, give yourself that room to breathe. Don’t, don’t be extremely strict, do what you need to do there. But at the same time, know how to replace those calories with something more? Again, that is more nutrient dense for you at the, at the end of the day.
Toby: Right. Right.
Shireen: So how can we take steps towards healthy eating if someone is used to eating junk food or is part of their diet? What, what can they do today as they’re listening to this episode, Toby, to really jumpstart their health journey.
Toby: So, I mean, don’t, I mean if you want to be extreme go and do a pantry makeover. But you do wanna really, planning your meals helps tremendously. It really, really does. So if you look at your plate, look at a plate, cut it in half, half that plate should be fruits and vegetables and this is a healthy individual without any kind of diseases. So half the plate should be fruits and vegetables.
A quarter of the plate should be protein and a quarter of the plate should be carbs, whether it’s a potato, pasta, whole grains, brown rice, barley, whatever you choose to do with a dairy on the side, whether it’s a yogurt for dessert or a snack, it’s fine or a glass of milk. So you want to look at your food in that manner and pick out three choices that you’re gonna have.
What’s for breakfast? OK. I know oatmeal’s healthy. How can I cook the oatmeal? Let me put a little bit of fruit, maybe a tablespoon of two or nuts. That’s my breakfast with a coffee. Next is lunch. I’m going to do a salad which is half fruits and vegetables. Make sure you have a protein on there. So let’s say a grilled chicken breast and then you want the carbs there. You can have a slice of bread if you want like a roll people like, with their salad or if you want croutons on there. And then dinner, let’s say you’re going to do a piece of fish, some rice and beans, maybe on the side and then some cauliflower. Ok. That’s your three meals.
And you’re still hungry? That’s no problem. That’s where snacks come in. Snacks are mini meals and it, so if you feel hungry or you go more than 4 to 5 hours between meals, then find yourself a snack. If let’s say I love ice cream, like love it. And I just don’t want a scoop or half a cup is 200 plus calories. I just don’t want it. I don’t, I see my cholesterol going up. I’m almost 50. My cholesterol goes up when I have too much saturated fat and my weight goes up. I know it. I see it. It’s genetic.
And so I’ve done a swap and this is what I’m suggesting, find swaps that work for you. So, for me, I go for Yasso. If I have two, it’s 80 calories times two or some of the bars are 100. So I know I’m having 160 calories if I have two bars and I love that coldness and they do a really good job mimicking the flavor of ice cream and it’s serving size. So I know the popsicle, not digging into the thing. So I know that works for me.
Some people cheese and crackers. Does it for them because they like that savory. So you have about an ounce of cheese with a couple of crackers. 7-8 Crackers, maybe a pair with that. If they’re still hungry to get the sweetness, you still want something sweet. Take a yogurt and put it in, you know, the single serve cups, put it in the freezer, it comes out like ice cream almost. So you can have that take the grapes or berries, freeze them, people like that frozen kind of, you know, do it that way. And there are many other like hacks that you can do in this manner, in order to, you know, try to feel satisfied for whatever your craving is and sometimes you want the real deal and that’s ok too. If somebody’s birthday, please have a piece of cake, just don’t have the whole cake.
Shireen: That may get little embarrassing at someone’s birthday. But yeah. No, I see, I see your point. I also like, you know, to me in, in what you’re mentioning, what I really, what I really like here is, is to say that, you know, you can’t help with certain behaviors, still be able to get the same feeling like you do. You know, having some ice cream with some of these substitutes that you’re doing or even less as simple as take some grapes and freeze them. So you still get that cold because that’s what you’re used to getting behaviorally but what you’re really getting is all of this benefit from a fruit. Right. So you’re really doing those swaps. And what you can do is with some of those behaviors you can sort of play with it and say, hey, this is what works for me. This satisfies the craving, but it’s not that bad.
Toby: Right. Right. And, and one other thing, like, if it’s too much to make all the changes at once, then start with one change. That’s the behavioral method of any kind of like psychology, smoking, cessation, food changes. I mean, because I have it really last once you do it six months minimum and then you continue a lifetime. This isn’t something, hey, I want to lose weight for the wedding, let me start eating healthier. It’s something you want to sustain because it takes over time for you to lessen that calorie load to let your body and then your body slowly is losing the weight.
The rate of weight loss by the National Institute of Health that’s safe for your body is 1 to 2 pounds a week. So in the beginning, sometimes, like when people make massive changes, they’ll lose like the first week or two. Ok, you lose some water weight or whatnot. But it really should be. I have a friend and I’m helping him with some weight loss techniques. In the beginning, he did lose quite a bit like five or 6 pounds that first week and a half. And then I explained to him the rate of weight loss. He’s like, no, but I’m like, I’m sorry, but that’s what you want and you know, everybody wants that quick fix, but for the body to be safe, to do this long term, to have no effects on your heart because also it can lead to low blood pressure and it’s dangerous for your heart if you lose weight too quickly too and you won’t sustain it, you’ll be too hungry and then just, you know more what you’re used to and gain the weight right back and that’s what happens.
Shireen: Yep. Absolutely. Well, on that note, Toby, this has been such an insightful episode. Can you tell our listeners how they can connect with you and then just learn more about your work?
Toby: Sure. I have a website. So it’s Toby with a Y, tobyamidor nutrition.com. My cookbooks are there. I have recipes if you want to look at how to do indulge in a little bit healthier. I definitely have that. And then on all the social media outlets, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn. It’s @TobyAmador or Facebook tt’s @TobyAmadorNutrition.
Shireen: Lovely. And can you also tell us about your new book that’s coming out?
Toby: Sure. I’m so excited. So, my 10th book is “Up Your Veggies” and it really is and it’s flexitarian recipes for the whole family because you can eat how you like to eat your protein. Omnivorously or just, you know, vegan or vegetarian based. But fitting in those vegetables, everybody have an issue with most people. I think nine out of 10 Americans is the, is the, is the staff don’t get their vegetables. So these are just really fun recipes or bowls to make whole meals, to make sure you get your fill of vegetables.
Shireen: Love it. And so folks can go and what we’re gonna do is we’re actually going to link up. The link for the book on Amazon.com so folks can click on the show notes, be able to go to the website, read the book and pre-order it on Amazon.com. So we’ll link that up in the show notes below here for our listeners here, Toby.
And last but not least, Toby, you also have a giveaway for us. It’s like double, man. Can you tell us a little bit about the book that you’re giving away and then I’ll talk about the contest rules.
Toby: Sure. I think, remind me which book.
Shireen: Yeah, we’re doing the diabetes cookbook.
Toby: The diabetes, okay, because I wasn’t sure if it was that one or the one before. So yeah, I love that one. And by the way, I do not, I’m not a person with diabetes, though I do have people in my family that have it, but I still cook for me and my family with this book. So it’s the “Create Your Plate: Diabetes Meal Prep Cookbook”. It is based on the American Diabetes Association plate method, how to fill it for someone who does have diabetes, which can be used for a healthy individual as well. And it just has breakfast, lunch, and dinners, and about 150 recipes that you can create this plate with.
Shireen: I love it. And so we will run that promotion on our social media channels. So for all of our listeners here today, what you would do is you would go to our Facebook, our Instagram, find this podcast post, and we’re going to post a question over there. Go answer that question, like it, comment below to be entered into this giveaway. So again, Toby’s doing a giveaway for the book, which is the “Diabetes Cookbook”. Head over to Facebook, Instagram, comment below this podcast post on our social media and be entered for the giveaway, and Toby will send you this cool book with a bunch of diabetes-friendly recipes. Toby, it was such a pleasure having you on. Thank you so much again.
Toby: Thank you so much for having me.
Shireen: Absolute pleasure. And to our listeners, we will see you on the next episode. Thanks Toby. Bye!